I'm abit bemused people are on here criticising McDermott for saying something they've been bleating on about for ages. He readily admits his players are guilty of this, that doesn't mean he coaches it, he even says Radford doesn't coach it.

In the heat of battle players go into survival mode and do what they need to in order to win. If they didn't reap rewards they wouldn't do it.

The responsibility comes down to the governing body and the officials to enforce things correctly.

That's a really good idea. As it stands field position AND extra 6 is way too big an advantage for what is often a really minor, pedantic technical infringement.

It's within his power to stop it though. He could drop or fine players he deems guilty of it. Let's be honest, leeds have been the 2nd biggest cheats in SL for years, beaten only into 2nd place by wigan. They've won numerous GF's on the back of it so he can hardly complain

I like it too. Do away with the kick to touch for anything but foul play although I guess you'll then get teams happy to give away a penalty early in the tackle count if they gain advantage by slowing play down

Stop been catty Jake you lost again against Leeds Boo HOO

He drops players, loses games, loses his job. Other coaches avoid that plan and nothing changes.

I think it's really crept into Hulls play over the last couple of years.Fonua barely gets tackled without flapping around like a dying fish, grappling the tackler and waving his arms, Houghton was one of the 1st to throw the ball deliberately into a defender.

I've noticed in our games we try to milk a pen in the scrum by keeping it in the 2nd row nearly every scrum. Just think it's against the spirit of the game

Only hulls success is pure. Everyone else has cheated.

That is the general perception in West Hull. Winning teams tend to have a nasty streak but Hull have really took it to the brink last couple of season and 2 trophies say it works.Far from a good team to watch but very big and very tough to beat

Conversely, Hull have 2 big wingers who opposition defenders struggle to dominate and who have every right to get up and PTB quickly if they win the collision. If defenders impede that they rightly get penalised. Fonua probably carts the ball up 15 times a game on average and maybe wins 1 or 2 penalties a game but is stopped from getting a quick PTB on many more occasions

Will be glad to see the back of him .Tongan trout every time he's tackled .

I'm glad you see that too

There'll be an element of that and by just getting up and playing the ball will gain that advantage, it's the throwing yourself back down and gesticulating wildly that's not needed.. Not just a Hull thing but it has been noticeable across the game.

Exactly - it's an arms race now, and no one team can give up their nal; the only way to prevent proliferation is to disarm everyone, as per the Leeds fan who posted earlier - draw some new lines, or redraw existing lines, and let *every* team know that this is how the game will be called from minute 1 of next season *without exception.* Ruin a few early season games whilst players test the boundaries? Probably - but it's short term pain for long term gain.

LOL

Firstly, you havent seen him in your league this year.

Secondly, assuming rovers are in SL next season, your no doubt glad to see the back of him as he scored and made several tries against your lot in the 3 games he had against you.

That he is going to the NRL speaks volumes about his ability

Its coached into players.

Its not hard to see that the number of real quality players available has diminished significantly, so milking penalties is drilled into players.

He's a good player no doubt, defensively not great but certainly going forward he is,with a triple pike thrown in

And... really, really, REALLY bad hair... what on earth is he thinking???

I think its important that whatever solution is in conjunction with the NRL. I worry for the WC because there is such a difference in the way the PTB is refereed.

I think two referees has worked in Australia, we dont really have two referees and its not a solution that can be used for the whole game from youth/amateur, through the lower leagues and other nations, up to international RL.

Ive suggested before, call held immediately as it was a around ten years ago, but allow the markers to stand either side of the ruck as long as there are only two players in the ruck. I think this will result in a faster, cleaner ruck, encourage the 3rd and 4th men to get out of the ruck quicker, and make it more difficult to just scoot from the ruck.

The NRL's not perfect though either, with many similar complaints made. The Storm are absolutely brilliant at playing almost every tackle right to the limit, and refs seem too scared to penalise them for it. The number of times the ref calls 'held' or even 'release' and yet tacklers continue for a second or two more is ridiculous.

I agree that the only way to clean it up in SL is to announce a clean start next season and to literally penalise teams out of games until the PTB is cleaned up. As an aside, I'd say the PTB is an area where I wouldn't let a single coach have input. They all want to be able to 'manage' this part of the game, and none of them seem to care about the spectacle of the sport as a whole. Get some ex-players in to advise, but ignore coaches IMO.

Agree 100%.

You also see clubs over trying the Storm approach. Players hold a up a player and then try to pull him down just as the "held" call is made. This adds at least 5 or 6 seconds to the PTB. It's obvious it's coached and players try it all the time.

Simply get rid of the "mooooove!" call and start blowing up if players aren't moving off the tackled player when the tackle is complete. At the same time enforce the rule that the ball carrier must regain his feet and play the ball with his foot. It's how it used to be about 20+ years ago and worked fine then.

Absolutely it's an issue on both sides of the world - the NRL clubs are simply better at it in defence, and after watching all of this weekends NRL games with this point in mind, I'd say in around 90% of the play the balls, the attackers have placed the ball on the floor whilst tackled ready to play it, whilst also using the ball as a lever to get to their feet - this is against the rules, penalise it.

Apply the rules of the tackle and the PTB consistently and literally and the game is infinitely better, with much less room for clubs to exploit the PTB area.

Powell being the exception? Erm no, Cas are just as guilty as the rest at the messing about to get a penalty tactics- They just also play some decent rugby among it.
Like someone has said- arms proliferation one side won't give it up- so all must or the game is going to carry on bring the dirge it has started to become.

Theres a list of things that need stopping.

Milking a pen by dropping the ball
Holding the ball in the SR of the scrum
The stupid back to 6 rule when the ball accidentally brushes a defender trying to wrap the player in a tackle.
Throwing the ball into a defender who is trying to get back in line (this has been somewhat sorted)
Stepping off the mark and wrapping the square marker up.

totally agree. and the refs have the power to stop it. but they won't.