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| Quote ="Starbug"So you are saying they cannot be improved?
It is competition from below that creates improvement'" They can't be improved to be anywhere near the standard of any of the current SL clubs barring London, no.
Quote ="RL13"Don't worry. Whatever will happen will change again in the next five years.'" I give it three years before licensing is reintroduced, and hopefully that isn't three years too late. |
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| Quote ="headhunter"They can't be improved to be anywhere near the standard of any of the current SL clubs barring London, no.
I give it three years before licensing is reintroduced, and hopefully that isn't three years too late.'"
You have a very low opinion of the Championship Clubs it would seem, I on the other hand believe that there is real potential within the lower tiers if it is properly marketed |
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| Quote ="Starbug"You have a very low opinion of the Championship Clubs it would seem, I on the other hand believe that there is real potential within the lower tiers if it is properly marketed'" Which Championship clubs do you think could attract crowds of 10,000, or have the finances to be able to even spend the full SL salary cap? Hunslet? Batley? Come on. The majority of Championship clubs have no hope in hell of ever reaching SL level. Even clubs like Featherstone would struggle to get anywhere near the standard of even the smallest SL clubs. I'm not sure how anyone thinks they will be 'increasing standards' by bringing in a bunch of clubs that are even worse than the current crop. It's as though the game is hell-bent on regressing to the 1970's. |
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| Quote ="headhunter"Which Championship clubs do you think could attract crowds of 10,000, or have the finances to be able to even spend the full SL salary cap? Hunslet? Batley? Come on. The majority of Championship clubs have no hope in hell of ever reaching SL level. Even clubs like Featherstone would struggle to get anywhere near the standard of even the smallest SL clubs. I'm not sure how anyone thinks they will be 'increasing standards' by bringing in a bunch of clubs that are even worse than the current crop. It's as though the game is hell-bent on regressing to the 1970's.'"
When all current SL clubs are pulling in 10,000 then your post has relevance, if you had all current Championship clubs pulling in double what they are at the moment then you would start to exert real pressure on the lower SL clubs and licencing then starts to work
And I dont think change right now is the correct option, but then again I'm like you not personally propping up a SL club with bucketfuls of money |
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| Quote ="Starbug"When all current SL clubs are pulling in 10,000 then your post has relevance, if you had all current Championship clubs pulling in double what they are at the moment then you would start to exert real pressure on the lower SL clubs and licencing then starts to work
And I dont think change right now is the correct option, but then again I'm like you not personally propping up a SL club with bucketfuls of money'" The fact that some SL clubs aren't already getting 10,000 isn't an excuse for introducing a bunch of clubs that lack the potential to get anywhere near that figure. I don't think an entire league doubling its average crowd is really realistic, but even if that happened most of the Championship clubs would still be way off the mark. FWIW I'm not too bothered about the crowds of Championship clubs in relation to their SL potential, but even the top Championship clubs would struggle to be anything but the worst/second worst supported in SL. We're supposed to be leaving behind the minimum standards, not introducing clubs with even lower standards, or barely above minimum. |
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| Quote ="headhunter"The fact that some SL clubs aren't already getting 10,000 isn't an excuse for introducing a bunch of clubs that lack the potential to get anywhere near that figure. I don't think an entire league doubling its average crowd is really realistic, but even if that happened most of the Championship clubs would still be way off the mark. FWIW I'm not too bothered about the crowds of Championship clubs in relation to their SL potential, but even the top Championship clubs would struggle to be anything but the worst/second worst supported in SL. We're supposed to be leaving behind the minimum standards, not introducing clubs with even lower standards, or barely above minimum.'"
Yes we are, but I dont know if you've noticed, it isnt happening |
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I keep hearing from many respected names within the game that SL as it stands just doesnt work because of the lack of finances and more importantly the lack of depth in playing talent.There just isnt enough talent to go around.So the brilliant idea they come up with is to reduce the number of teams.
Shaun Wane in his interview with Sky came out and said that with the strength of the NRL and the loss of our best players to that league that the way forward is for SL teams to develop their own talent the same way Wigan are doing.All sounds great in theory but then this happens.
www.sportinglife.com/rugby-leagu ... ew-zealand
Make a note of the comment made by Dean Bell
"Bell said today's announcement signalled a new direction in the club's recruitment strategy as they begin to target young players from not only New Zealand but also other parts of world."
Now if one of our most successful SL clubs and a club with a fantastic youth development programme cannot keep hold of 2 of its brightest prospects then this really is a worrying sign for the long term survival of SL.
I guess my point is that there are a lot bigger issues that should be being dealt with rather than going back to the exact same system that was deemed to be a total failure just a few short years ago.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein.
If action isnt taken to try and stem the increasing player drain to the NRL then come 2015 there wont be much of a SL worth watching which will have a major impact on TV revenues and Outside sponsorship.The financial implications could be devastating but hey,at least we will be playing in 2 nice leagues of 12 equally talentless teams with p and r for that extra bit of excitement.Cant Wait. |
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I keep hearing from many respected names within the game that SL as it stands just doesnt work because of the lack of finances and more importantly the lack of depth in playing talent.There just isnt enough talent to go around.So the brilliant idea they come up with is to reduce the number of teams.
Shaun Wane in his interview with Sky came out and said that with the strength of the NRL and the loss of our best players to that league that the way forward is for SL teams to develop their own talent the same way Wigan are doing.All sounds great in theory but then this happens.
www.sportinglife.com/rugby-leagu ... ew-zealand
Make a note of the comment made by Dean Bell
"Bell said today's announcement signalled a new direction in the club's recruitment strategy as they begin to target young players from not only New Zealand but also other parts of world."
Now if one of our most successful SL clubs and a club with a fantastic youth development programme cannot keep hold of 2 of its brightest prospects then this really is a worrying sign for the long term survival of SL.
I guess my point is that there are a lot bigger issues that should be being dealt with rather than going back to the exact same system that was deemed to be a total failure just a few short years ago.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein.
If action isnt taken to try and stem the increasing player drain to the NRL then come 2015 there wont be much of a SL worth watching which will have a major impact on TV revenues and Outside sponsorship.The financial implications could be devastating but hey,at least we will be playing in 2 nice leagues of 12 equally talentless teams with p and r for that extra bit of excitement.Cant Wait. | |
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Here's an idea, scrap any salary cap for championship clubs. If a club outside SL can attract an owner willing to fund a full time squad of decent players that will win them promotion and see them competitive when they go up then let them. Will see some big scores but who cares, it seems promotion is all that will have any meaning anyway.
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| Quote ="JB Down Under"Here's an idea, scrap any salary cap for championship clubs. If a club outside SL can attract an owner willing to fund a full time squad of decent players that will win them promotion and see them competitive when they go up then let them. Will see some big scores but who cares, it seems promotion is all that will have any meaning anyway.'"
Dont be silly.The RFL doesnt like to promote ambition.It likes to keep everyone dumbed down to the lowest common denomination.Its only fair to keep everyone at the level of the poorest clubs and it certainly doesnt want to attract more rich owners into the game willing to spend money or attract outside sponsorship so that all clubs can have more cash to waste.
You Championship bods really need to learn your place and stop upsetting the RFL masterplan for total mediocrity for everyone. |
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| Quote ="JobsForTheWives"I keep hearing from many respected names within the game that SL as it stands just doesnt work because of the lack of finances and more importantly the lack of depth in playing talent.There just isnt enough talent to go around.So the brilliant idea they come up with is to reduce the number of teams.
I guess my point is that there are a lot bigger issues that should be being dealt with rather than going back to the exact same system that was deemed to be a total failure just a few short years ago.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein.
If action isnt taken to try and stem the increasing player drain to the NRL then come 2015 there wont be much of a SL worth watching which will have a major impact on TV revenues and Outside sponsorship.The financial implications could be devastating but hey,at least we will be playing in 2 nice leagues of 12 equally talentless teams with p and r for that extra bit of excitement.Cant Wait.'"
So ' respected figures' in RL and also yourself suggest a lack of player quality as the problem, how very negative, does having ' respected figures ' talking the game down help the situation? , what solutions have these ' respected figures ' and yourself for that matter put forward as an answer? |
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Quote ="Starbug"So ' respected figures' in RL and also yourself suggest a lack of player quality as the problem, how very negative, does having ' respected figures ' talking the game down help the situation? , what solutions have these ' respected figures ' and yourself for that matter put forward as an answer?'"
Dont shoot the messenger Buddy.Not a case of being negative,its being realistic.And to use my quote instead of cherry picking one segment i said lack of player quality and Finances,which is a rather important point. For starters listen to this.
www1.skysports.com/watch/video/s ... estructure
I know this is only one guys opinion but there are at least 4 SL chairman who agree.
Or how about this
www.skysports.com/opinion/story/ ... 13,00.html
Lots of different ideas have been put forward but the RFL seem entrenched in their views.Their masterplan is to go back to the exact same old system we had before SL era.Remember,the one they said wasnt working.
They seem unwilling to embrace new ideas but willing to embrace ones that failed in the past..Their failings to get a Major Sponsorship deal for SL and the whole Stobbart fiasco have shown how badly the RFL are letting down all RL clubs not just SL. |
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Quote ="Starbug"So ' respected figures' in RL and also yourself suggest a lack of player quality as the problem, how very negative, does having ' respected figures ' talking the game down help the situation? , what solutions have these ' respected figures ' and yourself for that matter put forward as an answer?'"
Dont shoot the messenger Buddy.Not a case of being negative,its being realistic.And to use my quote instead of cherry picking one segment i said lack of player quality and Finances,which is a rather important point. For starters listen to this.
www1.skysports.com/watch/video/s ... estructure
I know this is only one guys opinion but there are at least 4 SL chairman who agree.
Or how about this
www.skysports.com/opinion/story/ ... 13,00.html
Lots of different ideas have been put forward but the RFL seem entrenched in their views.Their masterplan is to go back to the exact same old system we had before SL era.Remember,the one they said wasnt working.
They seem unwilling to embrace new ideas but willing to embrace ones that failed in the past..Their failings to get a Major Sponsorship deal for SL and the whole Stobbart fiasco have shown how badly the RFL are letting down all RL clubs not just SL. | |
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A question, as anyone asked this?
What is there a reason why no one wanted to sponsor SL?
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Quote ="Horatio Yed"A question, as anyone asked this?
What is there a reason why no one wanted to sponsor SL?'"
Good Question....
You would think that with a game that on a regular basis attracts top TV ratings and has at least 2 live SL games on prime time TV every week that it wouldnt be that difficult for anyone with any sort of buisness Accumen.There again we are talking about the RFL who did however secure a nice bit of change for themselves recently.
www.leaguefreak.com/rugby-footba ... deal-4957/ |
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Quote ="Horatio Yed"A question, as anyone asked this?
What is there a reason why no one wanted to sponsor SL?'"
Good Question....
You would think that with a game that on a regular basis attracts top TV ratings and has at least 2 live SL games on prime time TV every week that it wouldnt be that difficult for anyone with any sort of buisness Accumen.There again we are talking about the RFL who did however secure a nice bit of change for themselves recently.
www.leaguefreak.com/rugby-footba ... deal-4957/ | |
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| Quote ="Horatio Yed"A question, as anyone asked this?
What is there a reason why no one wanted to sponsor SL?'" My best guess is because a majority of RL fans are a bunch of s? |
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| Quote ="Starbug"So ' respected figures' in RL and also yourself suggest a lack of player quality as the problem, how very negative, does having ' respected figures ' talking the game down help the situation? , what solutions have these ' respected figures ' and yourself for that matter put forward as an answer?'"
Exactly, I don't know where Jamie Peacock (among others) gets off by talking down the competition and trying to talk his fellow professionals out of a job but he is a cock.
In fact I'm sick of everyone talking the game down full stop. Are we struggling financially and for sponsorship? Yes, along with every other walk of life aside from premier league football who seem immune. But is the league more competitive than 5/10 years ago? Yes. Is it as competitive as the amazing NRL where every game is a cup final? Well the table would certainly suggest so.
I hear the Superleague mentioned in the media more often than I ever have done. Attendances haven't held up badly considering we are in recession and alot of our clubs play in really poor areas. Do your bit to spread the game for once rather than drag it down at every opportunity.
The most important thing for a growing sport like ours is image, and if you asked most of my football supporting friends they would say it was a joke league because of the franchising. When we are trying to expand the sport and people outside the sport think that, we are on a hiding to nothing. Franchising was a good idea in theory, but it is not in the culture of British sport and we are right to scrap it. |
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| Quote ="Mr. Zucchini Head"Exactly, I don't know where Jamie Peacock (among others) gets off by talking down the competition and trying to talk his fellow professionals out of a job but he is a cock.
In fact I'm sick of everyone talking the game down full stop. Are we struggling financially and for sponsorship? Yes, along with every other walk of life aside from premier league football who seem immune. But is the league more competitive than 5/10 years ago? Yes. Is it as competitive as the amazing NRL where every game is a cup final? Well the table would certainly suggest so.
I hear the Superleague mentioned in the media more often than I ever have done. Attendances haven't held up badly considering we are in recession and alot of our clubs play in really poor areas. Do your bit to spread the game for once rather than drag it down at every opportunity.
The most important thing for a growing sport like ours is image, and if you asked most of my football supporting friends they would say it was a joke league because of the franchising. When we are trying to expand the sport and people outside the sport think that, we are on a hiding to nothing. Franchising was a good idea in theory, but it is not in the culture of British sport and we are right to scrap it.'"
I do plenty to "spread the game" and for you to suggest that i drag it down at every oppurtunity because just like you i have an opinion on an important topic is both insulting and ridiculous.
Just out of interest how long does it take for our sport to grow and would it not grow quicker and better if all the teams had more finances available to them and if you are hearing SL mentioned in the media more often than you ever have, then why has this not translated into real Major Sponsorship and commercial oppurtunities.
The culture as you call it of British Sport is very often viewed around the world as a load of drunken yobs beating the crap out of each other in the name of sporting rivalry so dont use that as a reason why Franchising wont work in this country.A point well illustrated at Wakefield recently.Hey,but it got SL in the media though.How does that work for the image you say is so important. |
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| Quote ="MjM"My best guess is because a majority of RL fans are a bunch of s?'"
And the rest of us have got dodgy prostates  |
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| Quote ="JobsForTheWives"I do plenty to "spread the game" and for you to suggest that i drag it down at every oppurtunity because just like you i have an opinion on an important topic is both insulting and ridiculous.
Just out of interest how long does it take for our sport to grow and would it not grow quicker and better if all the teams had more finances available to them and if you are hearing SL mentioned in the media more often than you ever have, then why has this not translated into real Major Sponsorship and commercial oppurtunities.
The culture as you call it of British Sport is very often viewed around the world as a load of drunken yobs beating the crap out of each other in the name of sporting rivalry so dont use that as a reason why Franchising wont work in this country.A point well illustrated at Wakefield recently.Hey,but it got SL in the media though.How does that work for the image you say is so important.'"
It would be great if we had more money in the game, reducing the number of clubs and games can only reduce the money out clubs have. We can't get sponsorship unless companies have money and want to spend it. What's Barwick supposed to do? Get the CEO of Barclays in a head lock until he agrees to give us some money?
British fans may well be seen as drunken yobs in other countries, but if we want to grow the Superleague it's the British fans that need convincing, not overseas ones. Last time I checked we don't have any Superleague teams in America and maybe we should start looking at how sports have become successful in this country rather than in other countries. |
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| Quote ="Barnacle Bill"The relegated team is much better equipped to deal with a step down than the promoted team is equipped to step up, which is why the priority should be to give the promoted team a fighting chance unlike the last time we had P&R.'"
I can't see how having spent a number of years competing in a full-time competition prepares you for assembling a squad of part-time players from scratch, restructuring the club and carrying out a preseason in about half the time the clubs already in the lower division have had to assemble their squads, but that's not really the point. Having the Championship season end early to accommodate the needs of the promoted club handicaps the relegated club, whether that club is better equipped to handle the transition or not. Most of the better part-time players will already have been snapped up when they come to start recruiting, for example.
In addition, by the way, finishing the Championship season in July means the promoted club goes six months without any income.
So, if finishing the Championship season early, as the other poster suggested, is the best way to handle P&R, the other ways must be dreadful. This suggests to me that automatic P&R between a part-time division and the sports's full-time top flight just isn't viable. |
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| Quote ="Red John"I can't see how having spent a number of years competing in a full-time competition prepares you for assembling a squad of part-time players from scratch, restructuring the club and carrying out a preseason in about half the time the clubs already in the lower division have had to assemble their squads, but that's not really the point. Having the Championship season end early to accommodate the needs of the promoted club handicaps the relegated club, whether that club is better equipped to handle the transition or not. Most of the better part-time players will already have been snapped up when they come to start recruiting, for example.'"
Previous evidence suggests that teams relegated from SL have not had much of a problem putting a competitive team together for Championship rugby.
Quote ="Red John"In addition, by the way, finishing the Championship season in July means the promoted club goes six months without any income.'"
That's only a problem if we want it to be. It would be easy to give the promoted team a payment to cover an extended period without games.
Quote ="Red John"So, if finishing the Championship season early, as the other poster suggested, is the best way to handle P&R, the other ways must be dreadful. This suggests to me that automatic P&R between a part-time division and the sports's full-time top flight just isn't viable.'"
But it can be, if we want it to be, it's not really that difficult. |
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| Quote ="Barnacle Bill"
Previous evidence suggests that teams relegated from SL have not had much of a problem putting a competitive team together for Championship rugby.'"
What's happened in the past isn't relevant here because, as far as I can recall, there's never been a situation where the Championship season started and finished months before the SL season. We're talking about whether the relegated club is handicapped in putting a team together when they are given half the time the existing clubs in the Championship are given, and start much later. They are, surely.
Quote ="Barnacle Bill"That's only a problem if we want it to be. It would be easy to give the promoted team a payment to cover an extended period without games.'"
Where does this money come from? If the RFL is so awash with money, it can afford to fund a club for half a year, I can think of better things they could put that money to.
Quote ="Barnacle Bill"
But it can be, if we want it to be, it's not really that difficult.'"
It [iis[/i that difficult. There's a huge gap between the part-time and the full-time game, and wishing that gap away won't make it happen. We should be looking to narrow that gap considerably before bringing P&R back in [iany[/i form, but that involves increasing income and spreading that income more evenly. The first part of this seems to be beyond the RFL, so it's jumped straight to the money shot.
Interestingly, there was a posting on TotalRL a few weeks ago by Martyn Sadler, the editor of League Express, concerning a conference he'd been to about sports marketing. He asked about Rugby League and they said the sport has a good profile and is popular, but massively undersells itself. Surely, the RFL should be addressing this first before it even thinks about P&R. |
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| Quote ="Red John"What's happened in the past isn't relevant here because, as far as I can recall, there's never been a situation where the Championship season started and finished months before the SL season. We're talking about whether the relegated club is handicapped in putting a team together when they are given half the time the existing clubs in the Championship are given, and start much later. They are, surely.
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You mean like back in 2001 , when Widnes were promoted in July and finished 7 th in SL the following year ? |
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Licensing in RL is fine... if your team has a licence.
Imagine trying to keep your 10,000+ crowds if your team had it's SL licence revoked?
Get real, most folk like to follow successful teams... apart from the real hard-core who'll follow their team through thick and thin come what may.
I've followed Fax for nearly 40 years and would never contemplate supporting another team... ever.
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| Quote ="Barnacle Bill"
But it can be, if we want it to be, it's not really that difficult.'"
The same could be said for pretty much any system. Why specifically are we trying to shoe-horn P+R in and force that to be viable |
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P&R between a pt league and a ft league will never work. Why do we insist on repeating mistakes of the past?
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