Absolutely! The RFU have been doing that for decades and it works!

Glanced at the wrong number on google. Regardless, even with a year to sell tickets I would be flabbergasted if we came within 20k of selling that out.

The last 3 attendances for England vs NZ in this country (not including the double header) have been 7,298, 19,390 and 23,447. We couldn't sell out Elland Road for the Four Nations Final against Australia. Not sure where you think all these extra fans will come from?

And if you expect the RFL to market it intensely for 12 months you can either expect ticket prices to go up or the series to operate at an horrendous loss.


They do already for most internationals and the Grand Final. Not sure about the CC.

I am usually all for spreading the game and being ambitious, but I think trying to promote a game up against the Union World Cup would be madness. Also I doubt grounds that are being used in that tournament such as Wembley, Olympic Stadium and the Etihad would be available for another event.

so i'd go for the DW, KC and then Elland Road or Huddersfield for the 'West Yorkshire' game.

In My opinion the recent World cup was the best run International event ever

It was the first time an event wasn't just thrown together in just 2 minutes

I actually think the RFL in terms of hosting will actually build on that, (I know that they have many other inefficiencies) The problem is the International calendar in general and probably the Aussies (people who run the game not he fans) negativity towards International rugby


Ok plan A was to take GB to Australia which would have been good

I think we have the next best thing here and we know over a year in advance and hopefully know venues by mid November giving plenty of time to get ready for these games

Like has been said Wembley 1st game I think its a good option

Although doing things round other sports is not where we should be at we need to remember the rugby UNION world cup is on around the time these games will be played - Semis 24th and 25th and Final 31st October at Twickers - It makes sense avoiding London on those dates

If the Super League GF is in the same place next season that is in in this we can really make this work

SLGF Sat 10th October 2015

2 weeks off (maybe a friendly on the 24th) Nz could play France in France (I think this will happen anyway as it was mooted that they would play France anyway, especially if we were playing Australia) If we could get a Pacific Team over to play us would be good if not probably Wales or Scotland


GAME 1 3st Oct or 1st Nov
remember the BBC did not get RUWC rights ITV did so I know they were pretty peeved by that, given the fact they have int RL rights they MIGHT really get behind this especially on the RU final weekend good coverage on BBC1 at a decent time, going directly head to head with it at 4pm BTW wont be advisable, Especially if one of the home nations are playing in it, but in the afternoon just before 1:45 KO or later on say 7:30 pm - Or the day after Sunday afternoon 3pm. I would have it at a PACKED northern stadium. If your been adventurous id say Elland road or the Etihad, playing it safe then the KC -

GAME 2 7th November
WEMBLEY - We have to go for it, it will be a clear weekend the Union will be over, BUT this is still a major International game of RUGBY we can ride the back of the Union (im not a Union fan in the slightest BTW just being a realist given the situation) WC razmataz and especially if NZ do well in the Union its likely we can bring a portion of that to the league game as being the second game it will be a chance for one team to clinch the series or a desperate attempt by the week 1 losing team to draw level - If Wembley is that weekend im sure we can make it work, Wembley wont work for the 3rd game as the series could be over and going up against the RU games the weeks Prior will be a disaster and remember many hotels will be booked up by now already - It would be a car crash for the game if we did that but the 7th Nov game 2 has the potential to be just right

Game 3 13th or 14th Nov

This one is a tricky one - Eland road would be good if the series is poised but we obviously have no idea of that there is a huge risk of the game being a flop especially if we have lost both games - I do think people will hold of this one and only buy tix if they know it has something major riding on it especially if they have already just been to Wembley – If its the sat for me the KC stadium if it wasn’t used week 1. If not id be tempted (my perfered option) to fill Headingly on the Friday night Ok not the biggest stadium but a proper RL stadium filled out on a Sat night in what could be a massive decided would be a hugely great atmosphere and if they had that on BBC TV on a Fri night it could be a real good advert – In that case if the game is dead rubber and interest isn’t high we are still safe – Also the Kiws are familiar with Leeds and were very settled there in the WC


This series has allot of potential if run right will be the catalyst for a great 4 nations in 2016

When these games are played won't the stadium capacity of increased though?

We have to have at least one international against Oz or NZ at wembley a year to re-build a proper international tradition. Just like the old GB tests at wembley had.

It worked for the WC semi and for the Aussie 4 nations game.

40k at wembley is a million times better than 20k at hull or Huddersfield. In terms of the event for fans and the image of the game and sponsors.

Etihad, Emirates (Wembley is just too big IMO) and then Elland Road for me

Unless england win the thing, the largest broadcaster in the country and its largest media outlet wont give it a second mention.
Get the league in wembley and fill the place........

Only 40k at the football last night. Should the FA move friendlies to smaller stadiums? No.

All the bottom tier was full, and as that is the only tier you really see, if we get, 30-40k at wembley it still looks good on tele.

What's the point? Barely any locals will attend, and I include the antipodean population of London. The media won't give it any additional coverage. There are no tangible benefits to speak of other than a nice stadium.

All that happens is RL fans from the heartlands have to spend a load more and some are priced out of going at all. You'll have a stadium possibly a quarter full and a terrible atmosphere. At the very best, we might scrape 25-30k if we're extremely lucky. At Wembley that's terrible, but pop it in the KC or DW (or even Etihad) and the atmosphere is electric.

The England game looked poor last night, and despite the hype in this thread we simply will not get anywhere near 40k for England vs NZ. Just a reminder, the last 3 attendances have been 23k, 19k and 7k. The World Cup semi-final double-header of course saw a good attendance, but that's while the competition was on a high, 4 teams were playing, and the end goal was significant.

Even as Great Britain attendances vs NZ were reasonable but never huge: 2004 saw 20k, 25k, 23k; 2005 saw 15k [i(in London!)[/i, 19k; 2007 saw 16k, 20k, 21k; 2009 saw 19k. I'm sure at some point it may have topped 30k but having looked back at a few World Cups and tours I've not found one.

I fail to see where tens of thousands of fans are going to appear from. And I fail to see why we should play a long-awaited international tour away from our fan base.

RL internationals don't have a good record at selling out, but if we don't take a test out of the heartlands a lot of the good work in the RLWC will have gone to waste.

Who really cares if Wembley doesn't sell out and the heartlands fans who can't make it down south will have two up north games to contribute to. With the past attendances taken into consideration actually tells me that a lot of the heartlands fans don't get behind the International scene enough. I was one of them, rarely used to attend anything other then Eng/GB v Aus in my region. But last years WC really caught my imagination and would love to see what sort of competition we could get if we had more fans and world class teams.

With the lack of funds in the game I reckon it would pay more to have 30-40k in wembley then 18-25k in DW / KC. With a year in advance to buy tickets I think it is worth the bit of ambition to have a go at selling it out, whats the worst that could happen ?

Sorry dont buy this locals don't turn up. They do. In 2009 we got 12k at te stoop for OZ/NZ. Were l them northerners? When we played OZ in 09, we couldn't even fill the DW. Two years later we got 40k at wembley for the same fixture? The atmosphere at wembley 3 years a go was a lot better. It doesn't neccasarily have to be at wembley. But I would hope we're aiming higher than DW/John Smiths. Way to expand is to make it feel like an event. It just doesn't feel like an event played at smaller stadiums.

It doesn't feel like much of an event when two-thirds of a huge stadium is empty.

Yes, some locals attend, but not in any great numbers. 12k in 2009 wasn't bad for Auz vs NZ but that proves nothing, a mixture of travelling heartlands fans, antipodeans and probably a few locals.

Not sure why you're comparing games against Australia or indeed the 2011 Wembley attendance - another double-header and the first RL internationals at the new Wembley. Given that I can't find an attendance over 25k for England or GB vs NZ standalone in the last decade - where are the additional 15k fans going to come from to at least match the 40k you mention?

If the Aussies were coming over for an Ashes series I'd agree with you, but unfortunately they're not. That would have been the ideal follow-on to the World Cup.

think small time, get small time.

Is it any wonder sponsors want nothing to do with us? First tour in a while and people wont go unless it is on their doorstep and even then only in relatively small numbers because apparently we are all too poor to go to a big city like london which is obviously right next door to Ulan Batoor and just too hard to get to.

Im going to watch the NFL at wembley at the end of this month. A return train fare from leeds to london cost me a whole £32.50. i havent needed to put in extra shifts down't pit to afford that.

Exactly this.
Its about time we move forward as a sport, all RL fans should want the sport to be as big as possible, yet most seem to be content with where we are now, even though they will moan about it when it suits them.

To expand the sport we need to do things like this, and yes it will require extra effort from current fans but that shouldn't be a problem as they should be happy to help make the game bigger.

Would I rather watch my country play 20 minutes down the road in a northern town, or would I rather spend a little extra money and time to travel and watch them in the national stadium in the capital city? For the good of the future of rugby league i would choose the second option every time.

Less than 3 hours to London from most of the Heartlands, either by car or train, to see some of the best players in the world in one of the best staiums in the world, with a year in advance of the game to arrange/pay for it. There isn't really an excuse other than you're not interested.

Saracens get large crowds there. That's nothing to do with the product being decent, but some decent marketing.

We already have the product. The RFL need to market the hell out of this series for the next 14 months or so (if at Wembley of other large stadia). We as fans need to get behind it too, give it the support it deserves no matter where it's played.

And the question you're all avoiding - where are the fans going to materialise from to deliver a respectable attendance at Wembley?

England/GB vs NZ seems to max at around the 25k mark, often lower. Even if every single one of that crowd travelled to Wembley and we pulled a few thousand locals and Kiwis, the stadium is barely a third full. Or two-thirds empty.

I'm all for moving forward but not at the risk of embarrassing our sport. Australia and the Ashes could possibly pull a big crowd, England vs NZ simply will not. Grandiose ideas are wonderful until confronted with reality, but please carry on ignoring the facts.

Contrary to the statement "it's about time we moved forward", we've been staging 'expansion' events for decades, plonking games here, there and everywhere in the hope the locals might notice - and they simply do not work. Grass roots, schools, etc is the way forward, not one-off games no-one in the local area gives a toss about. Playing the opener in a mostly empty Wembley will do precisely nothing to advance the game.

Perhaps we could play it as a double-header with the NFL.

Good to see a proper tour. Should be aiming for 40k stadiums and get whoever marketed the RLWC on board to run it.

The same way we got 18k EXTRA fans turning up at wembley for exactly the same fixture.

I don't see your problem if ony 30-40k turned up at wembley. It would sell out the bottom tier, and looks a damn site better than at DW. Do you think the FA are embarrased about 40k turning up yesterday and thinkig of having all future friendlie at white heart lane?

If the series is PLANNED and MARKETED properly, they will come. The World Cup is proof of this. In 2000 the New Zealand v.s England semi final Drew an attendance of 16k. The 2013 World Cup got 67k. Same teams, same competition. Where have 50k extra fans come from? By your argument we should have had the semi at the Halliwell Jones stadium as we could only sell two thirds of the stadium at Bolton. And the final at Elland road as we could only fill half of old Trafford.

Cronus, there were nearly 70,000 at the semi final at Wembley. That was one hell of a game, I can't see why any one of those who attended would not want to go again. Obviously not all will but this is a perfect chance to build on that. And please stop saying 'where will the extra fans come from?'. Market the game heavily in advance, especially in the south, and they will come, like they did for the World Cup. It's perfectly possible to attract new fans to the game.

25k in some small northern town is not respectable to start with.

Are you forgetting a few things? That was a double-header. 4 teams, playing for a World Cup final place, on the momentum of an outstanding competition - instead of the shambles of 2000, which incidentally was a shambles primarily because they tried plonking games all over the place in the name of expansion and the competition never really got going.

Any comparison between the World Cup semi-final double-header and an England vs NZ tour opener is ridiculous.

England/GB vs NZ standalone tends to max at around 25k at the best. It simply isn't the same draw - the last few NZ tour openers have pulled 16k, 18k and 16k. The RFL could market it to death but they won't find 40k fans. And where would they get the funds for all this marketing? Again, if it was an Ashes tours I'd be confident but it isn't.

The FA are actually probably quite embarrassed, it was the lowest Wembley attendance for a long time. The difference is they usually get strong attendances whereas we're starting from a low base. They can be confident their next crowd will be back to normal.

Whatever, go ahead and play it at Wembley. We can all have 3 seats to ourselves. One for me, one for my £8 beer and one for my £6 hot dog. That'll be nice.

I can't see any games being played at the KC as are pitch is no longer 100m long since it has been re done so think that will be the end on internationals there.

GAME 2 7th November
WEMBLEY - We have to go for it, it will be a clear weekend the Union will be over, BUT this is still a major International game of RUGBY we can ride the back of the Union (im not a Union fan in the slightest BTW just being a realist given the situation) WC razmataz and especially if NZ do well in the Union its likely we can bring a portion of that to the league game as being the second game it will be a chance for one team to clinch the series or a desperate attempt by the week 1 losing team to draw level - If Wembley is that weekend im sure we can make it work, Wembley wont work for the 3rd game as the series could be over and going up against the RU games the weeks Prior will be a disaster and remember many hotels will be booked up by now already - It would be a car crash for the game if we did that but the 7th Nov game 2 has the potential to be just right


Even more reason to go for it now the NFL wembley games for 2015 are out and this weekend is directly the 2 weekends prior, Its a perfect slot - Get some advertising in the wembly area for the 2 weekends leading upto it, get a stall giving out RL freebies (mini balls etc) Ticket info when those NFL games are on and theres some great opportunities


NFL Wembley 2015

Sunday, 4 October, 2015: Miami Dolphins v New York Jets

Sunday, 25 October, 2015: Jacksonville Jaguars v Buffalo Bills

Sunday, 1 November, 2015: Kansas City Chiefs v Detroit Lions

100% agree there should be a game in London and Wembley is the obvious choice if available. Olympic Stadium, if ready, might entice plenty of fans to make the trip too. With the Rugby World Cup 2015 matches being expensive, cheap tickets might entice plenty of casuals who have gotten the rugby bug from the other code. Anyway, if we don't try we'll never know.

Five years ago I'd have said we needn't bother with big venues for Kiwis games. But RLWC2013 changed that. I'd say 75% of the 68000 that were there for the semis had left midway through Australia v Fiji.

The Etihad would be great too. Easier for fans from all the M62 corridor clubs to get there than any other ground, particularly if using public transport.

Elland Rd, despite being a hole, always a good bet too. The perfect size and location.

What a great opening post!