It shouldn't turn in to a club slanging match but I suggested Percival should be playing and rate the lad massively. As a Wigan fan it takes a classy player to impress me if they're in a Saints shirt and he does.

He's a future international without question.

Watkins had a shocker today no doubt but he's obviously miles better than that. He just had one of those days when nothing went well for him, it happens.

Thought another player with a big rep in RTS for the kiwis was poor today (and hasn't really had good games in the first two tests either) he made heavy weather of several kicks he collected today.

England have done a good job on RTS. My hearts in my mouth when he gets the ball but we generally kept him in check.

Watkins couldn't keep hold of the ball today, it was a shame because he got some decent ball to work with at times. He's been excellent in defense for the most part, though, and he's still the best centre we have.
As for Percival, he's not had an injury free season at Saints yet, and he's not shown to be consistent over a full season. The WCC showed he's still got a lot to do to prove he's an international player. I hope he does though. He's a great prospect.

I thought Tuivasa-Sheck made some great metres on us today.

I cannot believe one two people suggesting Tomkins over Hardaker at full back! Hardaker is a different class and you feel secure with him there.

Nice to see a win again, eight years is quite a while, but both were against weakened Kiwi sides and we all know what happened a year later last time. We won the game because we played better, the game was a little more expansive, but more needs to come on both counts. It's easy to suggest the backs this week were better than the previous tests but that was alway going to be the case as the gameplan meant they actually received the ball and had chance to use it. Overall though the kicking game was well behind the Kiwis and all the tries from the forwards shows an ongoing problem, man of the match and series choices baffled me.

A new coach is required both to improve tactics and pick the right players. But the key thing is, our players don't have either the ability or the confidence to show the skill that the Kiwis (and the Australian side) do naturally. Look at the way they draw the man and pass the ball, offload in the tackle or just move it out wide, the play is so effortless. The way we play the game in this country has to change, just big lads barging it up the middle doesn't win big games or fans.

I'm sick of hearing this weakened NZ team rubbish. England were also missing key players, and it's par for the course at this time of year. England deserved to win, it wasn't pretty, but they were the better team over the 3 games. We'll need to improve hugely if we're to win the 4Ns, but we've set a solid platform to build on.

Defensively Hardaker has been great but he's not even on the same planet in attack as Sam Tomkins.

I see a place for both though. Our halves need work, I've been dissapointed with Widdop and Williams has a long way to go. I don't think Matty Smith is the long term answer either even though he was ideal for today. With all that in mind I see a place there for Sam Tomkins.

Hardaker will need to offer more going forward then he has in this series though. He's not got any good ball out to the centres/wingers whatsoever.

I also see a place for both players in the England side next year but it will be Tomkins that will need to move into the halves I'm afraid as IMO you need a rock at the back and we have now found one in Zak

You can't go into a Test series with a weak link in the back 3 and hope to win. Defence at the back comes first, followed by returning the ball safely. Attacking comes third. Today they taregetted the new lad early on but he was outstanding. Suddenly they had nobody to kick to - a first for us in a while.

Hardaker offered as much going foward as any of our backs!!

My England man of the series was James Graham by a mile.

Hill was a contender too as he was outstanding

Chris Hill was my man of the series.

He's top class.

Going forward tomkins should come in for widdop in the halves. Give him a free role to do what he wants, with smith controlling the game liks today. Hardaker still at fullback. That spine gives you pefect balance of everything.

It'll do for me.

I don't have a Wigan vs Leeds hat on when I say we need more from Hardaker in attack. I think he's a fantastic player but he needs to bring more. In fairness to him I think he can and will get better and better. A dry track would be a good starting point for him and all the backs.

Hardakers defence in this series has been world class. But in comparison his kick returns and link up play against NZ has been average. Did not look good chiming into the line amd got knocked about a bit in kick return but iam sure leeds are working on that. They are not the sort of team that would not be working on a players weak points.

Defence wins you games/keeps you in games.

Hardaker has to be at Fullback.

Get Tomkins in the halves

which kind of proves my point about the national side been about who your club team is rather than your individual skills, jerry has played this way for years, but has never even been considered for an international shirt until this year, simply because (as with burgess,although he's a good player) as soon as a decent prospect from Wigan or Leeds breaks into their teams,they automatically move up the pecking order.
i'm not saying that these lads aren't good enough but the fact that players from other clubs get overlooked says it all, williams (who i thought looked completely out of his depth but had to play because he's from wigan) and bateman are both good examples, both good players, but as soon as they have a few games for wigan they are both then talked up for international honours, yet holmes, at cas, has been consistently good for a few years and never gets a look in.

Can all of these people who are talking about Tomkins have to be in the team tell me what exactly he will be doing at either full back or half back.

Is it his kicking game ?
His passing and distribution ?

His organising ?

Or is based on how he was a great attacking full back from a couple of years ago in SL?

Now i am not saying he should not be in the team

BUT

he has to earn his place and then see where he will be playing.

If he spends all season at Full back for Wigan he should not be anywhere near the halves for the internationals unless it is the old he plays for a top team we have to put him in somewhere ala Bateman at centre.

Does anyone still think that was a good idea.?

I'd play Tomkins off the bench to add something in attack in the last 20 minutes or if we are trailing. We need a back on the bench.

Hardaker has done something throughout this test series which I think hardly ever gets mentioned and is a mainstay of a modern Fullback's role.

He's called the defensive plays incredibly well.

As a Fullback, you have to martial your team, read the plays and tell players where to go to nullify the oppositions advantage.

When there has been an overlap, he's been there.

Nightingale learned that for his try, after being magnifecently banged previously, but he should never have been allowed to get there if Watkins had held his ground.

Watkins just had a bad day today.

We're a decent team, I like the camaraderie between the players, I'm not a fan of Steve Mac, but who else has instilled that?

You realise Bateman spent most of last season playing centre don't you?

If McGillvary is going to make it to the team full time he needs to work on his defensive positioning, he got badly sucked in on the first try and there were a few other occasions in the first half where he was following the ball, not the man he should be covering. Going forward he looks great, I hope the England coaching team can help him improve down the path. I'd hope they give all the England squad and those on the fringes the same kind of advice.

Big difference between that and stepping up to being an international..

He offers very little offensively IMHO

If you look at it he was covering inside because the inside players were all sucked in.

I agree it needs to be worked on but he probably needs better defenders inside him as well.

With their last try he was the only player left covering his side of the pitch e everyone else got sucked towards the posts.

I do agree with the gist of your post though.