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| Quote ="Fishsta"Are you on about Danny McGuire?'"
No Fishy, I'm on about Sam Tomkins (see thread title).
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| Quote ="bren2k"I agree about his profile, but I do care. For mine, the very fact that he has some media presence and an emerging profile as one of the games exciting superstars means he has even more responsibility to act accordingly.'"
But that's the point, the world of sport is full of these kind of players so one from RL will hardly get noticed. Honestly Bren do you really want a game full of white hats and no black hats! It's the bad boys who make it interesting always has been. Also let's get it in perspective, he's hardly Joey Barton and he doesn't look old enough to have spit roasted a a page three girl premiership style - he just rather petulantly chucked the 'v' sign which simply made him look silly, even my 74 year old mum was hardly put out by that.
I think we will have to beg to differ, but I want Tomkins in an England shirt being as unsporting to the Aussies as he wants.
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| Quote ="vastman"I think we will have to beg to differ, but I want Tomkins in an England shirt being as unsporting to the Aussies as he wants.'"
But we all know he wouldn't do it. He wouldn't do it in SL if his brother wasn't there to back him up all the time. He'll disappear against Australia.
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| Quote ="Saddened!"But we all know he wouldn't do it. He wouldn't do it in SL if his brother wasn't there to back him up all the time. He'll disappear against Australia.'"
I'm not sure he'll disappear, as he doesn't seem to lack bottle. He'll have a lot less room to play in though and subsequently, won't stand out as he does in SL.
I take your point about 'characters' in the game Vasty but at this moment in time, as far as the outside world is concerned, the only hats worn in RL are flat caps - we need to get some credible representatives in the media before we're entitled to have them divided into good and bad guys.
Thanks largely to Sky's obsession with him, Tomkins was on his way to becoming that credible RL ambassador; I can't help but conclude that this episode, together with his abuse of officials and the general ill-tempered nature of the game, will do nothing to help reverse the perception that RL is a game played and watched by thick, northern thugs with too many tattoo's and a penchant for vulgar behaviour.
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| Quote ="Neville Bartos"
Flicking the V's, grabbing the ref, trying to get players sinbinned, taking dives, flicking his legs up in the tackle when on the ground etc etc.'"
You pretty much just described a majority of players in SL.
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| Quote ="Enicomb"You pretty much just described a majority of players in SL.'"
Which SL is that? Not the one that I watch every week, that's for sure.
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| Quote ="bren2k"Which SL is that? Not the one that I watch every week, that's for sure.'"
Clearly you're obtuse or watching with your eyes closed.
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| Quote ="Enicomb"Clearly you're obtuse or watching with your eyes closed.'"
Examples? I can think of the odd instance, but to say the majority of players behave in that way is wrong. There is an element of Melbourne about Wigan which explains their behaviour, but I don't think any other club is doing any of those things you mention on a consistent or majority basis.
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| Quote ="Enicomb"Clearly you're obtuse or watching with your eyes closed.'"
No, I'm just not stupid enough to paint a couple of hundred professional RL players in a dishonestly negative light, in an attempt to justify the foolish behaviour of one.
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| Quote ="Saddened!"But we all know he wouldn't do it. He wouldn't do it in SL if his brother wasn't there to back him up all the time. He'll disappear against Australia.'"
When, in all likelihood, ''his brother will be there to back him up''?
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| Quote ="Guerrier"When, in all likelihood, ''his brother will be there to back him up''?'"
Will he? Playing where exactly? We have better centres and second rowers around than him.
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| Quote ="Neville Bartos"Flicking the V's, grabbing the ref, trying to get players sinbinned, taking dives, flicking his legs up in the tackle when on the ground etc etc.'"
you missed trapping the arm in the tackle and cannonball tackling.
HTH
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| Quote ="morleys_deckchair"you missed trapping the arm in the tackle and cannonball tackling.
HTH'"
YTDH, thanks.
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| Quote ="morleys_deckchair"you missed trapping the arm in the tackle and cannonball tackling.
HTH'"
Sam's done a few dreaded ninja tackles in his time too. He loves 'snapping the pole' training at Wigan.
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Fair enough, but why is the fine suspended?
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Fair enough, but why is the fine suspended?
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| Quote ="Saddened!"Fair enough, but why is the fine suspended?'"
God knows. They do it for most fines.
Probably just so they can gather some money if they don't have any ready at the time
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| Quote ="bren2k"No, I'm just not stupid enough to paint a couple of hundred professional RL players in a dishonestly negative light, in an attempt to justify the foolish behaviour of one.'"
In you're world only ST tries to gain a penalty or have other players sin binned (The wilkin incident earlier this season springs to mind, but how many times does danny maguire have to go down like he's been shot).
Nope, it's obviously just me; all RL players are angels, except Sam, who is the devil of RL, clearly; nothing to do with him being the best player currently playing in SL of course not.
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| Justice served I think lets move on and can we now leave the poor lad alone
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| Quote ="Enicomb"In you're world only ST tries to gain a penalty or have other players sin binned (The wilkin incident earlier this season springs to mind, but how many times does danny maguire have to go down like he's been shot).
Nope, it's obviously just me; all RL players are angels, except Sam, who is the devil of RL, clearly; nothing to do with him being the best player currently playing in SL of course not.'"
Ah I see - the classic 'straw man' fallacy.
You knock yourself out - I however won't be wasting any time responding to an argument against a position that I never took in the first place.
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Fine suspended for a year, so basically he'll cop a heavy one if he does it again. Right move there. And case closed for me. All parties have done what I'd hoped they'd do in the aftermath of such an incident.
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Fine suspended for a year, so basically he'll cop a heavy one if he does it again. Right move there. And case closed for me. All parties have done what I'd hoped they'd do in the aftermath of such an incident.
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| Quote ="Saddened!"Will he? Playing where exactly? [size=150We have better centres[/size and second rowers around than him.'"
Like who!
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| Quote ="vastman"icon_eek.gif
Like who!'"
Don't be fooled by his athletic run for his wonder try, Wigan won't keep Joel at centre long term. He isn't up to it. His defense is suspect and he doesn't have the class with the ball to make a top centre. It is the big weakness in their lineup currently and one Wigan are scouring the globe to fill.
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| Quote ="Saddened!"Don't be fooled by his athletic run for his wonder try, Wigan won't keep Joel at centre long term. He isn't up to it. His defense is suspect and he doesn't have the class with the ball to make a top centre. It is the big weakness in their lineup currently and one Wigan are scouring the globe to fill.'" First impressions last with some simpletons! Joel is an handy player, he's pies' Hendo but I think the beeb over-estimated his speed chronically!!! As for Tomkins the RFL think Wigan are the benchmark side in world rugby League and they can't have negative things looking any more than trivial that surrounds them.
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| Quote ="Saddened!"Don't be fooled by his athletic run for his wonder try, Wigan won't keep Joel at centre long term. He isn't up to it. His defense is suspect and he doesn't have the class with the ball to make a top centre. It is the big weakness in their lineup currently and one Wigan are scouring the globe to fill.'"
That wasn't the question - I'm fully aware of his limitations. What I asked was who is so much better that we can't have Joel in the team to please Sam.?
It certainly isn't - Atkin, Yeaman or Shenton or any other current British Centre. Some are not as good as Tomkins, a few are slightly better most are the same but it's all relative - none are International standard. Hence IMO we can play Joel at centre and not weaken the England team in any major way.
So to suggest there are better centres out there and Joel shouldn't be picked simply doesn't hold water.
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