everytime I read through these threads I despair...


the Rugby League Family is being ripped apart...

divisions and fractures are being created now which will take generations to repair... if ever.

I have loved RL since the moment I first played (age 11 at Manygates school 1971) I have been a regular spectator since age 14... played until 40, coached 2 development teams in the midlands, sponsored and mentored where I was able...

but finally... I've had it!

Stop and think what you are all doing, from top (who are managerially inept) to the clubs who are lost in self interest, to the jouros who can barely string two coherent sentences together, to the agents who see the new world in dollar value and sod the consequences, to the players who have massively over inflated self value and ego, to the fans who see the opportunity for unconsequential mischief and yobbish attitude and behaviour.

The whole bucket of crap stinks...

so to those who are granted franchises.. work bloody hard and remember; a town/ city lost their SL club and people lost their jobs, so you could have one, remember the kids who will grow up not knowing what it is like to follow your local heros to Wembley.

and whoever gets the chop on Tuesday, you have my sympathy for their is no way back... to those who lose their jobs, to the parents and schools in the catchment area who will no longer have support... to the generations of potential RL fans and players who will be drawn to nearest soccer club.. to the Grandparents who will not be able to take their grandson/ daughter to watch the game that they grew up loving.... why?



because we have totally lost sight of why we first loved the game... and we are creating a monster

They also have Huddersfield & Bradford on the doorstep too.

The Calderdale catchment area is more than big enough to support a SL side.

I was here then!

I don't know if you are referring to Wakefield or Halifax, either way both are part of the bedrock of RL along with Leigh, Barrow, Wigan, Swinton, York and the rest.

Wakefield have produced a huge number of players who ply their trade at all levels of the game, the better ones are:
Ellis, Westwood, Ferguson, Pitts, Brough, Mason, Griffin, Murphy, Blaymire, Wood, Snitch, Morton, George, Davey, Wildie, Atkins, J Griffin all still playing at SL Level or better. There are twice or even three times as many playing at Championship or Championship one level.

rhetoric is a wonderful thing! Grandparents will still have a club within 20miles to take their grand kids to, there are hundreds of towns without a SL team that still have great school and jnr clubs, many clubs have come back from relegation stronger over the last century, Widnes just the latest in a long line, players and staff have always lost jobs when clubs got relegated, just as players and staff get employed when a club is promoted. Sorry but are you advocating that there should never be P&R of any kind?, clubs and players have always been self interested since we started earning money from the game over 100 hundred years ago and fans have always misbehaved ( I have heard the stories from the 60's!).

If your going to quit following a game then at least think of an original reason why!

Why are they the 'bedrock', because they have been there for a long time? The fact is that if Wakefield hadn't signed those players, they would have been signed up by other local clubs and still made it to Super League. In fact many of the players on that list did play for clubs other than Wakefield as juniors before establishing themselves at Super League level. Either way, if Wakefield didn't exist these players would not have been lost to the game in some way, they would have just come through at other clubs, with the possible exception of the Griffin boys who I believe were signed from Oxford Cavaliers and therefore may have been overlooked.

I couldn't disagree more!

Let em carry on clan. The argument that super league quality players will find their way to super league whether they are near a super league club or not kinda negates all the rhetoric we have to put up with to justify the shenanigans at crusaders and quins somewhat eh?

So by that standard are you saying we don't need Quins or the Crusaders as players will come through anyway?

While I understand the point of the last two posts , I do disagree , the better geographical spread of the game we have , the more chance we have of producing more RL players of a higher standard

But that does not say that the best 20 RL players of the next generation might not all be born within 20 miles of each other , and they could quite concievably all be from Wakefield and be first drawn to the game as Wakefield fans , and also they could be lost to the game as a result of Wakefields loss of SL status

There is no quantifyable way of being sure either way

Obviously not, you seem to have spectacularly missed a point that even Starbug was capable of understanding quite easily. If Quins and Crusaders didn't exist, the young players coming through at those clubs would instead by playing RU or some other sport, they almost certainly would not be playing RL. If Wakefield didn't exist, the likes of Ellis, Westwood and Mason would almost definitely still be playing RL, and would just have been signed by other clubs such as Cas or Leeds. Obviously that's not to say clubs like Wakefield should ignore youth development, but running off a list of players that have come through the ranks at Wakefield and pretending that they would otherwise not be playing is just desperate and stupid, especially when half the players listed by 'The Clan' can equally claim to be products of other clubs. The argument would be different if West Yorkshire wasn't such a crowded market.

Conversely, the desire for grass roots RL in the Wakefield area will wane, once the chance of playing at the highest level, for the club they have supported as a kid is denied.

Whereas, both in London & Wales, Rugby Union is King and all the best players will undoubtedly follow that path, both due to tradition & financial reward.

Therefore the best rugby players in the expansion areas will have been cherry picked by the Union mob & the remainder will drift into R.L.

That’s not the case in Yorkshire, where the only aspiration in Union is to play for the yo-yo Leeds outfit.

Pity you weren't on the widnes site, we could have done with a few decent fans!

The same argument would be equally as valid for any RL club, anywhere. It's nothing special to Wakefield and in fact fits less with a club like Wakefield which already has a very saturated RL market with 2 SL clubs and 3 Championship club in the district, another 3 SL clubs and 3 lower leagues clubs in the county. What is missed by Wakefield is more likely to be picked up and interest kept up by the 10 other pro or semi-pro RL clubs based around them, than Quins or Crusaders, where players/interest missed by these clubs are by and large lost to the game.


You would be surprised at the huge amount of RU professionals who come from RL heartlands, Mike Tindall, Chris Ashton, Toby Flood, Mark Cueto and Ben Foden, Jonny Wilkinson, Danny Care and Charlie Hodgson all from Yorkshire, Lancashire, Cheshire and Cumbria.

Similarly RL players can come from areas outside of the heartlands, but the structure needs to be there. RU needs Sale, Leeds, Newcastle like RL needs Quins and Crusaders.

Hang on a minute , if your going to use part of my post , use all of it , it is quite conceivable that there are and will be many youngsters attracted to RL because of Wakefield who have and will go on to become top players , so yes having a larger geographical spread is desirable , but it in itself doesn't mean that those areas will produce top RL talent , the argument isn't conclusive either way and cannot be proven either way

The argument is self evident, those areas which play RL will produce more RL players than those areas which dont play RL. If we are to increase the amount of players we produce (only one half of the issue, but a larger crop is likely to result in a better cream) then we need to increase the areas which play RL.

The only way to do that is by having a larger geographical spread.


Theres a certain contradiction in your argument that accepts that having a club in an area surrounded by other RL clubs attracts fans and players to the game, but then also states having a club in an area not surrounded by other RL clubs isnt necessarily going to attract fans and players to the game, it just doesnt make sense

that's the biggest load of bo**ocks I've seen outside of a starbug post.

It's not though is it? It's nowhere near. Its not telling the whole truth but it's grounded in reality.

I appreciate the plethora of clubs in the District, however, for young kids who get into the game watching there hero’s, followed by joining junior clubs, and going on to having trials for the club they’ve supported is a real buzz.

Whilst living in an age where money talks, the bond between young players & the R.L club they’ve supported via Parents, Grandparents and peers is a strong bond, many would rather walk away than play for a rival club.






The names of players playing International R.L from outside the heartlands hardly roll off the tongue.

Structures need money, back to the old chestnut, who pays?

No there isn't , you , me , anybody cannot prove that the quality of the top level players will increase by geographical expansion , more players yes , but better quality no , quite often in many sports the close neighbouring of clubs produces the best players , as the standard that those players have to perform at at junior level drives up the quality and the performance level

In the same way that having ' super ' junior clubs associated with pro clubs can be detrimental to improving players at a young age , if you put all the best juniors in one team , they don't have to improve to be the best , split those players between half a dozen local clubs , and those players will have to work harder to be the best

Local rivalry works better than anything else to produce better players

No the principle he suggests is correct , the best way to improve the quality of junior players is local rivalry

And a senior club dropping down a division some how prevents local rivalry?

Thank you for your eloquently thought out reply, I was under the impression that by-passing the swear filter was against Forum rules, oh, I forgot, you’re a higher intelligence, being a moderator and all.

No it doesn't , but it could conceivably reduce the interest in the sport in an area that is more likely to produce better quality players because of local rivalry , it could also lead to more juniors becoming interested in other sports in that area ,

It is what it is , nobody can prove anything either way