Also, your argument about 20k at Headingley being better than 20k at Cardiff is a bit disingenuous. How could we know that 20k would be at Cardiff? If it's announced early, built up properly (like the other two finals) it would most certainly get a higher crowd. Rome wasn't built in a day. The first GF only got 44k. Loads of empty seats.

We need to be progressing, not receding. We've taken the safe option for 14 years, and whilst I agree that we should have for a time (we weren't in a position to take risks), I feel we've been ready to move forward for at least 5 years but haven't had the bottle to.

Brilliant post and 100% Agree. Although wembley was half empty, it looked a million times better and like a proper international than it did at a near full DW.

I can't passionately disagree, since I don't think I'm in a wildly different camp, it comes down to where one thinks the balance is right. Clearly nobody would want to use Wembley for a game with 2000 fans, just as nobody would want to use a amateur ground for a WC final. As I say, I err on the side of filling seats over absolute numbers, because I think its better for long term profile...but...don't think I'm suggesting this is taken to the extreme.

[Some grounds themselves work better than others with empty seats. I think its the cricket ground in Perth that has random looking seat colours scattered all over to create the impression of more people when its not full. It works. Not in our hands that, just an observation.

I've heard those critcisms about the WCC, but I worry less about criticisms that need to be argued out because not that many people listen to detailed stuff. It's those one-shot instant impressions that for me have more impact. I'd wouldn't like a casual viewer to tune in to the WCC and see half empty giant stands, whereas I'm quite happy for them to see a full Headingley. Sure, if they want to go away and read the analysis of critics they might read about the things you mention, but the first impression and the one that's more likely to stick with them, is big game, big crowd, amazing atmosphere, sport in good health.

At a personal level, I've taken new fans to 'dumps' like Knowsley Road, but packed out dumps and they've come away thinking "wow, I had no idea how amazing RL was", whereas I've taken people to a half empty DW and they've just not really 'got it', even though the game on show was close.

And how much better is it to sell Hospitality or attract sponsors for a proper international at Wembley than at Doncaster or Leigh sports village.

I mean I love Elland Road but its an old stadium in a ty part of Leeds...really isn't the best setting for an International test/final game

I think every Eng v Aus test should be held a Wembley, to get that special occasion of the game back

Great comparison, Wembley-LSV. I hope I never live to see the day England v Australia is played at LSV and I am a Leyther.
LSV does have 22 boxes plus 3 corporate lounges which is fantastic for a 12k venue.

I agree BTW re. Eng-Aus. No problem at all with that being at Wembley. And no problem at all if I never have to set foot in Elland Rd again. Horrible place. Headingley infinitely better.

For me, they should always be asking the question, "is it realistic ( even if very ambitious) to get to within 20% of capacity if we work our socks off on ticket sales, and market this like crazy?" If yes, go for it, otherwise, pick a smaller ground.

If we didn't have so much of a PR challenge in general this would be FAR less important, almost unimportant, but there's a narrative out there of "RL is a sport in decline" that we need to overcome. Never let the buggers see an empty stand IMO. The narrative and the reality are never that far apart, because media profile is so critical to success - the narratives can be self-fulfilling. And, to respond in advance to Smokey...our waffling on here has nothing to do with the narrative out there. "Talking the game up or down" *here* does absolutely nothing - we're preaching to the converted.

Why do you care what idiots who are looking for excuses to shoot down the sport think? Their opinions are totally inconsequential, why would you want to pander to them rather than doing what's best for the sport? The ironic thing is that you and similar fans trash the sport a hell of a lot more than anyone outside the game, and ultimately are probably a lot more damaging since you are the ones who would be expected to be supporting the sport.

Who is it then?

Where are you seeing this narrative and who is writing it?

Can somebody explain which circumstances dictate that an ' early bird ' discount offer should be extended ?

Good sales ?

Poor sales ?

could either, could be neither.

They could have always planned to extend the early bird sales and it was always part of the strategy to do so. The thinking being that the ending of it would act as a prompt for some, the extension doing the same to others.

I suppose , those kind of ' mind games ' always seem pointless to me , eventually the majority start to ignore them I find when they do them at club level , or they drive down the price of the product

So you would prefer them to have done nothing, yet no doubt would then have complained that they were doing nothing. IIRC they stated that the original early bird ticket allocation had sold out, regardless of whether they had or not it's pretty standard marketing. We're talking about the World Cup Final, not Leigh Centurions season tickets.

:2ozrwg4g

Calm down dear

I asked a simple question , no alterior motives involved , that nice Mr smokey gave me an answer [ for a change



.com

Quote ="RLBandit"Did you read any newspapers at the start of the season? They were full of pessimism. And by the way, that visible part of the narrative worries me less than the one that happens on the quiet - that is, news media not retaining RL journalists, and editors not running stories.'" pessimism like this? www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-c ... per-league

Quote ="RLBandit"Did you read any newspapers at the start of the season? They were full of pessimism. And by the way, that visible part of the narrative worries me less than the one that happens on the quiet - that is, news media not retaining RL journalists, and editors not running stories.'" pessimism like this? www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-c ... per-league

The sport receives little mainstream media coverage because the international scene is pitifully weak in comparison to other equivalent sports such as cricket and RU, and outside of the CC and SL finals there are no real major events for the media to cover. And part of this problem is because the sport is unambitious and people are so worried about 'looking bad' that we end up playing England internationals at places like Doncaster and Leigh, which is totally defeatist and just ends up being a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The match at Wembley on national TV in 2011 did more for the sport's profile than 20 England v Australia matches at Wigan or Hull.

Yeah except you pretty much disregarded the given answer, and when another poster told you what you wanted to hear then you accepted it without question.

FWIW, reading [url=http://www.rlwc2013.com/rugby-league-world-news/article/890/beanie-mania-forces-ticket-offer-extensionthis article[/url it looks as though what was 'extended' was a giveaway of free hats after the cut-price tickets sold out. But yeah, I'm sure that is a clear sign that ticket sales are slow and that the tournament is going to be a massive failure.

I replied as such , hardly disregarding it

=#BF0000I suppose , those kind of ' mind games ' always seem pointless to me , eventually the majority start to ignore them I find when they do them at club level , or they drive down the price of the product

=#4040BFI suggested that was how I understood things , but then said I was confused , so not without question

You are getting paranoid my friend

They ain't no "PR" company...
[urlhttp://www.fasttrackagency.com/1102/about-us/our-team/uk/[/url
...some pretty heavy hitters there....let'shopethey earn their crust.

Quote ="SmokeyTA"pessimism like this? www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-c ... per-league'" Well since I said the "start of the season", no, I wouldn't have been referring to an article from April 2012, because I'm not a certified cretin. Besides, we can all find 'good' articles. That doesn't prove anything. If you think the media profile and general 'narrative' out there right now is good, you're in your own world and I can't help you.

Quote ="SmokeyTA"pessimism like this? www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-c ... per-league'" Well since I said the "start of the season", no, I wouldn't have been referring to an article from April 2012, because I'm not a certified cretin. Besides, we can all find 'good' articles. That doesn't prove anything. If you think the media profile and general 'narrative' out there right now is good, you're in your own world and I can't help you.