Who is "we"? Who are the other people you appear to speak for??? If it's "expansionists" then can I claim I speak for the apparent 80% of fans who are realists, a majority on the crowded terraces, and a minority on sites like this? Why do you think quotes have to be repeated? It's because if you don't like what the people who run the game say you just blank it out.

Toronto Wolfpack have been the darlings of social media for four years now and I haven't seen any kids wanting to be RL players because a load of ex-Leigh lads pretend to be a Canadian RL team. What on earth is attractive about that to young kids? Yes please DO sit this out as i don't want to be debating how TWP's apparent "Glamour" is wowing youth the world over, "One day dad I want to be Sonny Bill Williams".

It's always telling in any "debate" when one party starts to attack the other because they can't attack the debate. Anyway maybe you are right, kids across France will be wanting to follow in the footsteps of that great role model Israel Folau............

An absolute pleasure to agree 100% with you.

Never in the games history have we put so much into junior player development with SKY paying £Millions for SL clubs to run development foundations, and academies. All English clubs are geared up to player development to the highest level they can manage and now run reserves. This is very important for without the players coming through - like those young lads playing for Wigan and Saints this last two nights, there would be no game. To do this clubs need the money and they need the staff, and they above all need the interest from their local population to want to follow RL and the kids become pro players one day. So it's only the English Superleague clubs that underpin any development.

France don't do it America don't do it. yet they are lauded to high heaven on websites. I did a bit of a study on player development here and it turns out even we can't manage to stock our SL clubs without having to buy in from abroad. The average number of antipodeans in Superleague first team squads is 6 - 7. We clearly don't produce enough talent hence the league dropped from 14 to 12 and may drop to 10. How is there any room at all for any overseas clubs to play in Superleague but not contribute to player development, and of course worse than that, shut development down in towns that DO produce players in the here and now.

I'm right behind Lenegan, McManus, Pearson, Hudgell and Wrencat. 2022 has to be "Back to reality".............

Reality and the 1960 pit villages are not the same. i applaud your tenacity, but you grasp on reality is a bit loose.

Bradford, Keighley, Doncaster, Widnes, you epitomise the xenophobe that holidays in Spain. I am glad our country has grown up.

And here we go again, you don't have any sensible argument for closing down the game here that gets TV deals and develops players, in favour of fantasy clubs so instead of demolishing the argument you try to demolish the person making it. Pretty ignorant cowardly and nasty way of doing things.

If TWP win today you will be trumpeting the future of the game lies in America. Despite the fact the winning club would be many $Millions in debt fast rising, would never be able to develop any pro players, and would surpress the presence of English clubs that have a 124 year record of success whilst Canada have failed as regards Rugby League for the last 90 odd years since the game was first introduced there.

You epitomise a dreaming troll.

What's your final vision for the game? Catalans Valencia, Belgrade, Ottawa, New York, Toulouse, Avignon, TWP, Vancouver, Boston, Leeds and Wigan.....Go on - tell me how that works?





..

I have said, many times, that I don't like how TWP has come about and seek to change the rules, expansion, MANAGED, PLANNED and REALISTIC expansion would work, a lot more than ploughing resources into Widnes, Keighley etc.

In reality FC and KR should merge, we wont, not because of what is right, but because of history. Ckinging on to history is what holds RL back.

The only people "willing to gamble" are people dreaming and trolling on these internet sites - see above. Sure the editors of the RL press will keep on making noises about how we are missing opportunities in North America but despite the depth of knowledge of the game and some sort of proven business acumen they steer well clear of ever analysing for us how shutting down Cas, Wakey, Fartown, HKR, as pro clubs in favour of Ottawa Toulouse New York and Avignon, just as a start - as IR80 supports - will work.

Not that it can work.Superleague belongs to dreamers

like Lenegan, McManus, Moran, Hudgell, Pearson, Davey, Carter Fulton etc. 2021 sees the end of the commitment that allowed TWP in.

Then the BIG DECISION will have to be made. Do we move the whole thing to North America??

More trolling.

History shaped the game as it is, a northern version of Rugby which has worked for 124 years and today is a professional game with professional players developed in the north, a solid and loyal fanbase, and the respect of sports TV with a sizeable TV deal, and northern businessmen who invest heavily.

Lets shut it down and move everyone to North America. Where will you be moving to to follow this??

I don't understand why you believe that the 80% of people who voted in the Hull poll now represent 80% of ALL Rl fans across England? That's a fair stretch.

Another genuine question. Has the Widnes academy closed since their relegation, and if not, what makes you believe that other academies of Super league clubs would close if they were relegated?

The problem with super league is that the Chairmen have to much power which leads to self interest and watching ones back therefore the stagnation of super league. Thankfully smart minds prevailed and Toronto got the green light which was a decision for the good of the entire game. They could see the negatives but also the positives.

Why don't we focus on the positives that most people see?

Are you trolling here? Or is your head so much in the expansion clouds that you think at the other end of the M62 80% of St. Helens fans want a Transatlantic league? That's a 3.000 mile stretch!!





Do you think St, Helens fans who watched the games at Leeds yesterday would prefer to play TWP and not get to play say Hull? Didn't you watch these games and thereby note the stark contrast between the phoney club and Hull, Leeds and Cas? Especially the number and the enthusiasm of the fans - are you blind and deaf? Or just trolling??

As for Bradford, Widnes and Newcastle running academies, they are doing this to qualify for Superleage 2022 when the SL chairmen and not the RFL will negotiate the English deal with the English broadcaster SKY who want a English league to attract English Subscribers, and English academies to produce the players. Are you naive? Do you think English clubs are now using their academies to provide North American clubs with players?

Your dreaming or trolling - whichever it is, is a very bad case and you need help.

Ooops more trolling or total naivety.

Those chairmen year on year put ££Millions into their clubs. They walk away and there is no game any more. They own it and pay for it, and they now negotiate the SKY deal for ttheir own clubs so I can guarantee you there is to be no transatlantic dream coming true any time now or in the future. TWP players are at best contracted to see it out to the end of 2021, if they avoid relegation this year they get a second year.

All Argyle has to do is find 11 more North American clubs, and highly rich Americans who can offer to triple the salaries of players here therefore bribing the playing stock of Superleague to go staff a north American League. All academies will then shut here and schools will turn to union. You at best are naive.

So to clarify, you do believe that 80% of Hull represent all English rl fans, which I find odd.

And as for widnes and their academy, they're still running their academy so no evidence apart from pure speculation that other English super league clubs if they were to be relegated, would close their academies? Plus both Bradford and widnes are financial basketcases. What makes you believe that those two are suitable for super league?

Right, at least we are now on the same page.

it was 80% of a very small sample.

It’s like 8 out of 10 cats.

Don't bracket me with yourself. Your the one trolling now there's no argument that TWP are somehow providing something wonderful to the game here.

No Player development ever
No Canadian TV money ever
No away fans
No glamour team
No marqueee players thrilling the crowd.
No academy
No reserves
No Eric Perez - given up and gone to Bradford Bulls
No players want to play for them unless they are heavily overpaid
No protected status in SL come the 2022 season
No English fans here impressed at all with what they saw sunday

It's an old Leigh team in disguise that actually live here

and your still falling (sorry trolling) for it. I'd guess now they have seen it the 20 % of Hull based RL fans who thought it may be a good idea to have "American"

teams may well have changed their view.

Now we have all seen the Transatlantic Dream in all it's glamorous action, perhaps we should re-visit the poll this weekend and ask 20.000 Hull and HKR fans should Hull.K.R stand down for the good of the game and allow New York to take their place next season so we can build on the overwhelming success of "transatlanticisation" that will save the game from dying here!

Shame it didn't feature Rachel Riley!

So because I disagree with you on some things and your pro English, financial basketcases clubs opinion, that means I'm trolling, does it? That doesn't progress the discussion, does it?

With your laughable list of opinion based negatives, I could suggest that it is you that is trolling.

You only look for the negatives, whereas I am able to see both.

Sorry but these are facts as regards TWP.....

No Player development ever
No Canadian TV money ever
No away fans
No glamour team
No marquee players thrilling the crowd.
No academy
No reserves
No Eric Perez - given up and gone to Bradford Bulls
No players want to play for them unless they are heavily overpaid
No protected status in SL come the 2022 season
No English fans here impressed at all with what they saw sunday

In your first ever reply to me you agreed wholeheartedly with my realistic stance. Tell me at what point did I upset you such that you decided to troll me?

No marquee players thrilling the crowd. Your opinion
No academy
No reserves
No Eric Perez - given up and gone to Bradford Bulls. Your opinion
No players want to play for them unless they are heavily overpaid. Your opinion
No protected status in SL come the 2022 season. Your opinion
No English fans here impressed at all with what they saw sunday. Your opinion

I don't know why it's so hard for you to differentiate what is fact and what is not. Unless you have a crystal ball, out of the 11 things you listed, 9 of them are merely your opinion and have no factual evidence whatsoever.

As for agreeing with you, yes some points I do such as academy and reserves as that is factual. Unfortunately the rest of what you write isn't based on factual evidence. If it was then I might agree with you on that also.

If you say so



It's rather an odd stance to take given we've all had the chance to see TWP in action in Superleague and read about their own admitted failures on the TV money and player development fronts.

They have totally failed and Macca even admitted it, no players, no TV money, massive debt, but maybe you can set out for me, the path they can take to turn this round and achieve success???

Please make sure in your reply you back it with "facts" not fantasy - we've had three years of Fantasy from TWP. Enough is enough.....

Like I have said before, the onus is on the person who makes the claims to back them up. Something you don't seem to understand. Its not my job to disprove your opinions.

As for debt, what debt? Who does he owe money to? It's his own money. Argueably he has made better use than most Chairmen in the English rl system.

He will never back up his claims with any shred of evidence. He will want you to disprove what he says. This is why I have given up replying to him. Its pointless

You don't reply to him because he makes you look very foolish, if you had anything about you you'd comeback with your evidence, let's start on the easy one where's the grid iron players that was branded about that could be taught the game

I like how people who aren't fans of Toronto feel that they can say whatever they like without linking sources to back up their opinions, and then expect others to disprove them. Debate doesn't work like that.

Quote ="The Silent H"I like how people who aren't fans of Toronto feel that they can say whatever they like without linking sources to back up their opinions, and then expect others to disprove them. Debate doesn't work like that.'" https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/wh ... -wolfpack/ https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-he ... ootball-us Go on then crack on and debate This is one the best link https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-le ... or-8388228

Quote ="The Silent H"I like how people who aren't fans of Toronto feel that they can say whatever they like without linking sources to back up their opinions, and then expect others to disprove them. Debate doesn't work like that.'" https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/wh ... -wolfpack/ https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-he ... ootball-us Go on then crack on and debate This is one the best link https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-le ... or-8388228