If we want to have proper representative rugby at county/origin level then it needs to be persisted with. SOO in Oz only had 1 game in 1980 and 81. Even after that the crowds weren't consistently large. It's only in the early 90's that crowds regularly reached over 30,000 for every game.[url=http://www.nswrl.com.au/default.aspx?s=soo_historySource[/url

Now look at it, arguably the biggest sporting series in Oz which admittedly is never something we could achieve here with wendyball as predominant sport and others ahead in terms of TV coverage etc.

I personally would love to see our game doing this at least to the same intensity as high level Super League games on an annual basis. Maybe it would then give us an opportunity to compete with the Australians, hell maybe even PNG

County games need to be persisted with, and allowed to grow as a meaningful fixture as has been said.

People harp on about poor crowds, but I remember the last game played at Headingly in these fixtures, 12000 midweek. If thats not a good crowd - again for a midweek, meaningless fixture, then what do you want?

Slot in in the weekend for Magic Weekends (which havent been allowed to prove themselves yet, we get one bad weekend in the worst recession in generations and people want to call it a failure) and give it the billing and marketing full bore and its a winner.

but then again, RL fans on the main want to seem to call things a failure before they've started, its a wonder we made it this long.

And here lies the crux of the problem.

Who pays for this event?

At the moment we have an event which the RFL "sells" the rights to a particular city's tourist board, using some of that money to subsidise ticket prices. Now you're proposing to replace that event with something that the RFL can't sell (as, presumably, we'll be keeping it in our back yard) and where the game's core audience is being admitted free of charge.

If we're going along this route my take would be to make it "us" vs everyone else. Therefore if the match was in Yorkshire it would be Yorkshire vs the best of the rest of SL. If in Lancashire it would be Lancashire vs.....etc etc with a varying home venue generating the home side....so France and Wales could be added to the party (as could Cumbria).

We should have a game using proper, traditional boundaries. Britannia inferior vs Britannia Superior, or Northumbria v Mercia.

Thats not a bad idea actually.

We had county games pretty much every season from 1895 through until the early eighties. I remember watching a couple with crowds below the 1000 mark in the 1970s.

There has to come a point when you accept that most people aren't interested.

I reckon we would be too tempted to write it off as a failure when it doesn't turn into a SOO affair in the first year.

My idea with Lancs and Yorks is to start them again as opposition for France (and maybe Wales). It would give France more competetive fixtures which would help their developement and give us two trail games were a few other potential players can have a crack of the whip.

If these fixtures were going on (which I think would be well received by fans on both sdes of the pennines), each county's performances would start to ask questions about which side was better, thus maybe creating a real clamour for the lancs vs yorks fixture to be scheduled.

IIRC Origin struggled when the concept was introduced. If something is going to be introduced here it needs to be followed through even if it isn't instantly successful. I see no reason why a similar concept to Origin can't be introduced here, except the RFL's short termism.

That's what I said

I'd be happy with an end of season knock out featuring the current boundaries that allows West Yorkshire to play against Cumbria and Lancashire and Merseyside or whatever. Teams should be picked on birthplace rather than where you first played and certainly no Irish Grandparents dog's best friend's cat's mother in laws rule to be allowed.

A little unfair seeing how the Merseyside representative team just be St Helens minus all their overseas and non-St Helens born players.

East meets West

The key to this is the RFLs stance on it being an England trial and that players who pull out from the game can't play for their clubs in the next round.

Sell! Sell! Sell! the idea to the fans with some smack talking, get players to talk about where they came from and which amateur clubs they started at. Give the freaking tickets away dirt cheap to ensure a big crowd and build the concept over a few years instead of the passing commitment that we usualy get.

This idea won't go away for a good reason, theres something in it but we just need to nail it down and make it work!

Still doesn't make it true though : State of Origin was pretty much an instant success and has never looked back.

One big reason was that, in the old NSW v Queensland pre-Origin games, NSW could call on all the Sydney players, even those born in Queensland. This meant that the contests were becoming increasingly one-sided and losing their appeal. Suddenly when Origin arrived, all the Queenslanders who had followed the money to Sydney could play for their home state again and give the cockroaches a good walloping.

Second big reason was that since the mid 1970s, GB has rarely been able to challenge Australia's international dominance and New Zealand hardly more often. So State of Origin increasingly (and probably rightly) became regarded as the pinnacle of RL competitions world-wide.

Compare that to our situation and we have neither of those factors. The old county championship died out through lack of interest and the Wars of the Roses revival was barely any better - especially since only one side gave any impression of really caring about the outcome.

Sorry but I don't have the answer, but I don't think Lancs v Yorks or East v West or any such variation will do the trick since not enough people actually associate with either of the sides (especially on the west of the Pennines).

Sorry....wrong..The players east of the pennines, Yorkshire, were far, far superior to those from West of the Pennines, Lankashire. That's why Yorkshire were victorious...Ok?
Ok, lets run with this

Personally I'm not that bothered about identification with the teams, I just want to see the best that RL players in this country can play. I'm sure I'd pick a team after time to support (it makes it a little bit better) but for all I care they could call the teams Reds and Blues and flip a coin to see which players are eligible for both sides.

(Although I will add that if there is something, anything to get up for - East/West Lancs/Yorks that would be preferable)

For me its got to be a three match series North (SL players born in Northern England) v South (SL players not born in NE e.g. Pat Richards etc) played at Venues in either the East or West Midlands on the same day as the Origin Series.

I would keep the Magic Weekend but have it either as the first or last game of the weekly rounds, venue & country to suit the time of year.

It could work, I would want East V West so not alienate anyone, unless we had it three ways Lanc's York's & the rest. All should be England/Wales/GB qualified. A good cash reward for selection (not in the salary cap) & make it a condition that to play international you must play in the seires also make it plain that this is the the selection for any international team. Also as posted if you pull out of any game you will not be able to play for your club that week unless the RFL doctor verifys the injury. If you could get a sponsor by all means give season ticket holders a free game but I would charge, If fans wont pay they dont deserve any consideration,

This idea will never EVER work so I really don't understand why we are debating it.

It will NEVER happen.

EVER.

Lets draw a line under it and move on


Here, I'll draw one ok??



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Cos Yorkshire v Lancs would really set the fans on fire, I can see Catalans Dragons, Gateshead, Toulouse, Whitehaven, Barrow, Workington, London Skolars, Crusaders and Quins RL fans queing up all night long for tickets.

When the game would be Yorkshire vs the Rest and the tickets are included in the purchase of your season ticket then why would you not want to see the best 34 European players play against each other.

The 2010 All Stars match down under drew 27,000 paying spectators. If we can't get people to go along to fill a 40,000 plus seater stadium when they get it included with any rugby league season ticket then rugby league is too snobbish for me.

There would be about 2,500 at any such fixture. Whichever way you dressed it up.

I suggest A-M vs N-Z. It would be almost as meaningful.

You can't turn a pig in a poke into quality just by sticking on the word "origin" to some artificial fixture, on the spurious basis that "Origin" means something elsewhere.

James McManus played for the NSW Country Origin team, and then the NSW State of Origin team, on the basis of playing for Newcastle. He was born in Scotland, and played his junior RL in the Northern Territory.

The primary aim of the Roses series is to prepare English players for England selection by pooling the best players together in the one game. Super League does not offer that more intense level of competition, can not offer it, will never offer it, should not be expected to. Neither does the NRL.

The 2001-2003 Roses series attracted [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_League_War_of_the_Rosesrespectable crowds[/url given the games were held on a Tuesday or Wednesday night. 10,253 to 8,258. These crowds were still higher than the France tests of the last three years, and just under the 2007 test crowd, all held on a weekend. They are higher than many SL games. If Roses can attract at least 8-10K, yet helps England compete strongly against Australia and NZ, then it has done its job. It is the England team that should be expected to attracted a large amount of interest.

In Australia, the NRL is not expected to prepare players for test level. City/Country and State of origin is. This is why Manly CEO [url=http://forum.titans.com.au/showthread.php?t=10235&page=8Graham Lowe pushed for a Kiwi Roots Origin series[/url when he was at the NZRL a few years back.

scrap the magic weekend and have a 2 game england v the other nationalities series...with the winner being decide on a aggregate score.....that is the ONLY series that will prepare the england team to go up against the aussies & kiwis....smashing a half strength french team does nothing...


france can play a england 'A' mid season and the full england side at the end of the season...