Quote ="wrencat1873"Even the keenest supporters of the vaccine acknowledge that you can still contract the virus, even after double vaccination - Sajid Javed may be a good example of this. Therefore, if wearing a face covering (definitely not a muzzle) may help prevent the spread, why are you so against it ? We know that you allowed people into your shop without face coverings, after all you openly said so many months ago. However, for people to believe you and believe too, that just about every government on the planet is wrong, is a bloody long stretch of the imagination, even for a fully paid up cynic like myself.'" I see at is if people want to wear a mask then fine and if people do not want to wear one fine. Nobody should be forced to do either. What I don't like about this whole thing is the testing. The PCR testing is giving out positives when it really shouldn't be. Pcr testing doesn't or shouldn't be used to diagnose to determine what virus somebody has. If a test showed trace amounts, amounts which mean they are not infectious and can't transmit that person shouldn't become a positive case, shouldn't be told to self isolate and then there close contacts told to self isolate. That makes no sense whatsoever and is just wasting time and resources as those who were close contacts will then get a test done when there would be no need as they couldn't have caught anything as the person was not infectious. This video explains it a lot better than I can. https://youtu.be/S_1Z8cSXI-Q

Quote ="wrencat1873"Even the keenest supporters of the vaccine acknowledge that you can still contract the virus, even after double vaccination - Sajid Javed may be a good example of this. Therefore, if wearing a face covering (definitely not a muzzle) may help prevent the spread, why are you so against it ? We know that you allowed people into your shop without face coverings, after all you openly said so many months ago. However, for people to believe you and believe too, that just about every government on the planet is wrong, is a bloody long stretch of the imagination, even for a fully paid up cynic like myself.'" I see at is if people want to wear a mask then fine and if people do not want to wear one fine. Nobody should be forced to do either. What I don't like about this whole thing is the testing. The PCR testing is giving out positives when it really shouldn't be. Pcr testing doesn't or shouldn't be used to diagnose to determine what virus somebody has. If a test showed trace amounts, amounts which mean they are not infectious and can't transmit that person shouldn't become a positive case, shouldn't be told to self isolate and then there close contacts told to self isolate. That makes no sense whatsoever and is just wasting time and resources as those who were close contacts will then get a test done when there would be no need as they couldn't have caught anything as the person was not infectious. This video explains it a lot better than I can. https://youtu.be/S_1Z8cSXI-Q

If your figures are correct the testimony below from a state registered nurse may explain quite a lot.
Unfortunate the nurse here has declined to give her name for obvious reasons. Yet another casualty of this covid s...show, the de-platforming and censorship of so many willing to speak up but also in fear of their jobs and careers should they do so.

"My partner was furloughed, the schools and high street closed immediately. Any forms of normal recreational escapism disappeared overnight, compounding the fear suddenly unleashed on our lives. I knew far greater health threats were occurring as a side-effect to all the unforgivably irrational management measures of Covid.
I really cannot call them safety measures. Rather than protecting health I in fact saw greater neglect as fearful staff were told to limit their time with patients and the care that these people deserved in the last days and weeks of their lives simply wasn’t there.
Many patients I see now will have stories of how they could not access any services, follow-up appointments or GP appointments. This is not what I became a nurse for and if healthcare has failed them in any way, all I can give them now is my sincerest apology."

"This would have caused enormous anxiety to those denied. I have met patients that have had surgery cancelled. A lady that broke her arm in February has had it hanging limply by her side since, losing muscle tone, good circulation, affecting her life and ability to work. She has attended A&E twice begging for surgery, even saying she would sign a disclaimer if she contracted an infection. But of course, she was refused and her despair and desperation ignored.
So, depression sets in. Depression, anxiety and general loss of confidence in our public bodies will all lead to serious mental health problems and therefore increased suicides. Loneliness and isolation experienced in lockdown can affect us all, healthy or otherwise, this too will undoubtedly have devastating consequences on the mental health of individuals."'"

Where have I said I'm against it? I'm just saying it appears to be pretty useless if we have to wear masks for the rest of our lives.
PHE released a report revealing 62% of alleged ‘Covid’ deaths are people who’ve been vaccinated
Public Health England have released a report which showed the majority of alleged Covid-19 deaths are significantly higher in people who have had at least one dose of the Covid-19 vaccine, with the highest number of deaths occurring in people who are supposed to be fully vaccinated.
The report titled =#BF0000 ‘SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern and variants under investigation in England’, is the 17th  technical briefing on alleged variants of concern in the United Kingdom and makes for extremely interesting reading once you realise what the statistics are actually telling us.
PHE have compiled a helpful table which shows the number of alleged confirmed Delta variant cases in the UK alongside the number of alleged deaths due to the variant. The table shows that since the 1stFebruary 2021 up to the 21st  June 2021 there have been 9,571 alleged confirmed cases of the Delta variant in people over the age of 50. Of these 8,025 had been confirmed in the past 28 days alone.
But the data shows that people over the age of 50 who are unvaccinated account for just 10% of the alleged confirm Covid cases, whilst those who are fully vaccinated account for 37% of the alleged confirmed cases. A further 40% of the alleged cases are people who had received one dose of a Covid-19 vaccine at least 21 days prior to their alleged confirmed Covid-19 infection.

As for "every government". We have been through this, your knowledge of globalization is still very limited. Why do you think the US has over 800 military bases throughout the world, why do you think those countries (Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, Korea, Libya, Syria, Yemen,Cuba even Russia plus most of socialist South America etc that do not toe the US line end up getting invaded or de stabilized? And that is just the tip of the iceberg. Therefore cow towing to a "virus" is the least of their problems.

Can you give me a link to these extra 300 people a day dying from covid 19. I repeat, dying [ufrom[/u covid 19.

Doubtful that this will be the case.
I am not a scientist or medically trained in any way, so my opinion is based on statistical data and advice from Medical Professionals. I see this virus continuing to mutate and different variants arising, but as we develop vaccines, then the number of people that this brand of covid will kill or seriously maim is reduced.

Masks will be an optional thing and as we develop our own immunity from Covid 19, Life will return to normality. There are many types of Covids that are believed to have existed for thousands of years and SARS-CoV-2 is just another. What makes it different is that we had little immunity from it, as it was quite different from previous 'editions', but just as it mutates, humans develop their own immunities......Like a flu jab, that is recommended in over 50's, this disease will be dealt with by regular vaccination.

As for the anti-vax brigade....good luck with that. Whilst 80+ is the average age of fatality, this thing has still taken its fair share of us young'uns too.

It'll be interesting to see what our auntie cindy)PM) down here in New Zealand does, when she rolls out the vaccine, we're all jabbed and we start to let jabbed tourists in, who then turn out to have the bug? I suspect we will see a fair few deaths here once we open our borders, but open them we must do because overseas tourists pay a fair few bills and after our success at locking it down and out, we are on quite a few new holiday wish lists.

[size=150Link?[/size
How many "young uns" ? How does your figure compare with all the other causes of death.

As I have stated previously, I am happy for foil hat wearers to bang their drums and I only ask one question.

[uWhy was the 2020 UK death figure, 111,000 higher than the average death figure "average" over the previous 10 years?[/u

I have no idea if covid killed all of them, or just gave them a "hurry up" from underlying conditions or dare I say age, but what is true is that this pandemic has dealt to an average age of 80. I have no doubt that there are many thousands of people who will suffer from breathing difficulties for the rest of their lives and therefore add extra burden to the NHS resources as well as having no doubt that this disease has killed younger people too. The reality is that Vaccinations started from the old aged downwards because that's the point of BEST resistance in fighting it........I never said it was going away, I said we will adapt as humans always have and the best way to do that is a/ get a vaccine and b/ use commons sense......cast your mind back 18+ months when we all had to be told to wash our hands and cover our faces when coughing and sneezing....it wasn't rocket science, just good hygiene

As I have stated previously, I am happy for foil hat wearers to bang their drums and I only ask one question.

[uWhy was the 2020 UK death figure, 111,000 higher than the average death figure "average" over the previous 10 years?[/u

I have no idea if covid killed all of them, or just gave them a "hurry up" from underlying conditions or dare I say age, but what is true is that this pandemic has dealt to an average age of 80. I have no doubt that there are many thousands of people who will suffer from breathing difficulties for the rest of their lives and therefore add extra burden to the NHS resources as well as having no doubt that this disease has killed younger people too. The reality is that Vaccinations started from the old aged downwards because that's the point of BEST resistance in fighting it........I never said it was going away, I said we will adapt as humans always have and the best way to do that is a/ get a vaccine and b/ use commons sense......cast your mind back 18+ months when we all had to be told to wash our hands and cover our faces when coughing and sneezing....it wasn't rocket science, just good hygiene.

People raged against contact tracing as an abuse of their civil liberties. People have raged against masks and vaccines for similar reasons but in most cases, they have little else to back up their objections other than "It's not fair"

Oh....for those people that say vaccines don't work, I have a single word. SMALLPOX!

As I say. I'm no doctor, but I use the information out there to make my own informed decisions. Just because I don't scour the dark web, doesn't mean i'm wrong, it just makes me an attractive target for loons

Quote ="orangeman"As I have stated previously, I am happy for foil hat wearers to bang their drums and I only ask one question. [uWhy was the 2020 UK death figure, 111,000 higher than the average death figure "average" over the previous 10 years?[/u I have no idea if covid killed all of them, or just gave them a "hurry up" from underlying conditions or dare I say age, but what is true is that this pandemic has dealt to an average age of 80. I have no doubt that there are many thousands of people who will suffer from breathing difficulties for the rest of their lives and therefore add extra burden to the NHS resources as well as having no doubt that this disease has killed younger people too. The reality is that Vaccinations started from the old aged downwards because that's the point of BEST resistance in fighting it........I never said it was going away, I said we will adapt as humans always have and the best way to do that is a/ get a vaccine and b/ use commons sense......cast your mind back 18+ months when we all had to be told to wash our hands and cover our faces when coughing and sneezing....it wasn't rocket science, just good hygiene. People raged against contact tracing as an abuse of their civil liberties. People have raged against masks and vaccines for similar reasons but in most cases, they have little else to back up their objections other than "It's not fair" Oh....for those people that say vaccines don't work, I have a single word. SMALLPOX! As I say. I'm no doctor, but I use the information out there to make my own informed decisions. Just because I don't scour the dark web, doesn't mean i'm wrong, it just makes me an attractive target for loons '" People are sleepwalking into governments control. They said before covid digital passports wouldn't be a thing but that's now changing. Vaccines to enter clubs? Football stadiums? When does it stop? Train travel? Bus travel? Pubs? Gyms? https://inews.co.uk/news/government-acc ... ct-1062476 If there is anytime to sell this to the public its now. I don't trust the government and before I wasn't getting vaccinated simply as I don't believe it's necessary for myself but add the requirement to use a digital passport just to go about ones daily life and then the possibility of national ID and this passport holding data about oneself then hell no I wouldn't be getting it.

Quote ="orangeman"As I have stated previously, I am happy for foil hat wearers to bang their drums and I only ask one question. [uWhy was the 2020 UK death figure, 111,000 higher than the average death figure "average" over the previous 10 years?[/u I have no idea if covid killed all of them, or just gave them a "hurry up" from underlying conditions or dare I say age, but what is true is that this pandemic has dealt to an average age of 80. I have no doubt that there are many thousands of people who will suffer from breathing difficulties for the rest of their lives and therefore add extra burden to the NHS resources as well as having no doubt that this disease has killed younger people too. The reality is that Vaccinations started from the old aged downwards because that's the point of BEST resistance in fighting it........I never said it was going away, I said we will adapt as humans always have and the best way to do that is a/ get a vaccine and b/ use commons sense......cast your mind back 18+ months when we all had to be told to wash our hands and cover our faces when coughing and sneezing....it wasn't rocket science, just good hygiene. People raged against contact tracing as an abuse of their civil liberties. People have raged against masks and vaccines for similar reasons but in most cases, they have little else to back up their objections other than "It's not fair" Oh....for those people that say vaccines don't work, I have a single word. SMALLPOX! As I say. I'm no doctor, but I use the information out there to make my own informed decisions. Just because I don't scour the dark web, doesn't mean i'm wrong, it just makes me an attractive target for loons '" People are sleepwalking into governments control. They said before covid digital passports wouldn't be a thing but that's now changing. Vaccines to enter clubs? Football stadiums? When does it stop? Train travel? Bus travel? Pubs? Gyms? https://inews.co.uk/news/government-acc ... ct-1062476 If there is anytime to sell this to the public its now. I don't trust the government and before I wasn't getting vaccinated simply as I don't believe it's necessary for myself but add the requirement to use a digital passport just to go about ones daily life and then the possibility of national ID and this passport holding data about oneself then hell no I wouldn't be getting it.

Yep.....I can....and again......they may not be dying from just covid, but without covid they wouldn't have died...the numbers of bodies may well be down to 110,000 hit and friggin runs......but they're there....in black and white!
[urlhttps://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsintheukfrom1990to2020[/url
some people are just too stupid for their own good

In my opinion that Philodox, Phil Gould is behind this and covid is just an excuse with the union teams from Oz and NZ coming here in October, and the Kiwi Crickets team just finishing a tour test series here

In my opinion that Philodox, Phil Gould is behind this and covid is just an excuse with the union teams from Oz and NZ coming here in October, and the Kiwi Crickets team just finishing a tour test series here

we are in a pandemic, the RFL/WC2021 needed to cancel it 7 weeks ago but sure, blame the NRL.

The ARLC used covid as excuse
You can't the fact that the Kiwi Cricket team have just been here and the union national sides from NZ and OZ are coming over here this autumn.

I am sure the organisers will be pursuing diplomacy in their conversations with the NRL....sorry, ARL/NZRL, but simply put, just show them this.........

UNION [urlhttps://www.autumn-internationals.co.uk/2021/[/url
BRITISH ISLES FOOTBALL
[urlhttps://www.skysports.com/football/teams/england/fixtures[/url
[urlhttps://www.skysports.com/football/teams/scotland/fixtures[/url
[urlhttps://www.skysports.com/football/teams/republic-of-ireland/fixtures[/url
[urlhttps://www.skysports.com/football/teams/wales/fixtures[/url
WORLD CRICKET
[urlhttps://www.icc-cricket.com/mens-schedule/list[/url

......If Isolation and simply chasing the same dollars as the AFL is the height of their ambition, then cut them loose, because this is making the game look tin pot in terms of being an "international" sport.

I can't see the cup going ahead unless the NRL will release players.....

I received this email after today’s meeting regarding World Cup.

The Rugby League World Cup 2021 (RLWC2021) Board held their scheduled meeting earlier today. While the Board reiterated the determination to deliver the biggest and best ever Rugby League World Cup in history, they are also realistic about the significant challenges that threaten that ambition.

In light of the decision by the ARLC and NZRL to withdraw from the event this year, the Board have asked that the RLWC2021 team continue to hold further urgent discussions with all stakeholders, particularly the players, aimed at correcting misinformation as well as measuring the sentiment on proceeding with the tournament this year.

The RLWC2021 Board recognise the need to bring clarity and certainty to the situation. They have also underlined the relentless collaborative work that has been ongoing since the beginning of the pandemic to establish the most safe and secure environment for all involved - in line with other world class major events that have taken place successfully in the UK in 2021.

We want to thank you for your continued support and patience and we will communicate any further developments as soon as possible.

Thank you again for your support,

RLWC2021 Team

Your figures..1990 to 2021.
So, there were 608,002 all cause deaths in 2020 and in 1990 there were 564,846 but please bear in mind the population has risen from 57 and a half million in 1990 to almost 68 million in 2020, a rise of almost 11,000,000.
Without doing the maths I would say there are less deaths per head of population now than a “corona virus” free 1990.

Also, 2019 to 2020

67,530,161 2019 UK population

67,886,011 2020 UK population

Pop rise 356, 000

Wouldn't this account for an increase in deaths between 2019 and 2020? Not to forget the rise in mortality due to cancelled operations, diagnosis and suicides. And to say “but without covid they wouldn't have died.” is quite a sweeping statement from you but perhaps more true than you realise given the aforementioned knock on effect of this covid scam.

An almost 99% surrvival rate cannot realisticly be called a "pandemic". And that's before the so called vaccine.



Come on, lets have a World Cup.

Are you that despeate to "prove" a point ?

I'm sure that you have done thorough research on this and yet you cherry pick 2 particular years.
How about looking at the deaths in the UK over the last 5 years.

This graphic puts things into context, without some dubious "cherry picking":

2020 608,002 59,829 1,016.20 1,043.50
2019 530,841 59,440 893.1 925
2018 541,589 59,116 916.1 965.4
2017 533,253 58,745 907.7 965.3

So, with fairly constant population, just short of 60 million, there were 60-70,000 additional deaths last year.



(figures from the ONS, mind you, in your world, they will be in on the conspiracy)

Sorry to trouble you wrencat but I was refering to Orangemans stats, 1990 to 2020 He posted them, not me. You need to read past the first lines of a post.

First line or last line, these numbers put the spike in deaths last year into context.
I thought that would be helpful ?

Granted, there is a spike 2019 to 2020 but what is the cause of these extra deaths.? Shifting thousands of vulnerable patients out of hospital wards into care homes? We know that happened don't we? Never known a care home to be a substitute for a fully staffed NHS hospital.

How many people have died at home due to lack of care? People that would otherwise have been in hospital receiving treatment.
Very few people have seen a doctor face to face during this dog and pony show. How much has been missed, how many mis-diagnosis's have occurred due to relying on a telephone conversation?

Here is part of an interview with a state registered nurse.
Q. Were there any other patients in your hospital from April (2020) through August?
Answer: A very minimal amount.
Q. How empty was the hospital during those months?
Answer: Extremely empty. Bays that were normally full were completely empty. On several occasions I have had no patients at all for an entire 12-hour shift.
The hospital had speciality wards for medical emergencies such as strokes, which were always full (before Covid). An emergency episode like a stroke can be easily diagnosed and treated with thrombolytic therapy, a hugely vital service preventing death and worsening brain injuries. =#800000The stroke ward was virtually empty.

Back onto WC2021 please.

About time....

So latest reports suggest we will get the latest go/no go decision pretty soon?

If all parties wanted a world cup we would have one, fully secure bubbles are possible (see other sports with more money, that the domestic game doesn't have), and there are enough players who would go into them.
But I don't think the negotiations are likely to succeed because of bad faith arguments, for example I have heard it said that the bubbles are not secure enough as they would be in hotels open to other non world cup visitors, and that it is unfair to ask players to be away from their families who couldn't come with them, which is contradictory.
And nobody has addressed that international players could just start next season late to get a full end of season break, which happens ALL THE TIME due to injuries, suspensions and other factors.

I can't see it going ahead. If there were enough players from Aus and NZ who want to go I think we we would have heard them by now. That's the only way I see Aus and NZ reversing the decision and just haven't heard enough players come out and say they disagree.

No Aus and NZ will be a nightmare where no replacement can fix.

The broadcast deal will be renegotiated, refunds will have to be dealt with, trying to sell tickets will be a lot more difficult and just seems going ahead with it will see more negatives than positives.