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| Quote ="[Gareth"'"
nope, can't see an image?
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"It's so simple. You cant welcome people who are from minority groups and then welcome people who are openly hostile towards those groups.'"
I do have some sympathy for that view but that is where a club can choose whether to recruit somebody or not based on their own reasoning. My main point in all of this is that I don't believe it is good for the RFL/SL (a governing body) to legislate against somebody because they posted something online that offended a portion of the population. The principle is that offence, by definition, is subjective - what one person finds offensive, another might not. So it would require the RFL/SL to decide themselves that something is offensive, which would be their own opinion, not the opinion of everyone and certainly not a fact, and that would be a weak foundation for any ruling.
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| I have said it before and no doubt will say it again.
Many people in rugby ( both codes) are religious people and are respected for that. Many, kneel for prayer publicly and thank God after they play.
NO ONE is denying Folau his right to freedom of religion!
People are questioning the way he expresses it!
It could have talked about how much strength he got from his religion, how it made him stronger and a better person. He could have talked about the love he felt and others could too, in Jesus!
-Nope it is all about gays ( and adulterers ..) going to hell!
He was warned, did it again, sacked and then preached it, mocked in Australia and ends up in SL!
At this stage it appears Catalan Dragons are just taking the p*** and the RFL cannpt do anything to stop it!
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| Quote ="Dally"Do you mean the late Bernard Manning?
I seem to vaguely recall that he led the community singing at a Challenge Cup final in the 1970s? Can anybody confirm or otherwise?'"
Yes he did I was their and spoke to him
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| Quote ="wire-flyer"I do have some sympathy for that view but that is where a club can choose whether to recruit somebody or not based on their own reasoning. My main point in all of this is that I don't believe it is good for the RFL/SL (a governing body) to legislate against somebody because they posted something online that offended a portion of the population. The principle is that offence, by definition, is subjective - what one person finds offensive, another might not. So it would require the RFL/SL to decide themselves that something is offensive, which would be their own opinion, not the opinion of everyone and certainly not a fact, and that would be a weak foundation for any ruling.'"
I agree that their latest stance may actually be impossible to invoke.
Without absolute guidelines, who will decide what media output is "offensive"
As for offence being subjective, yes, of course it is.
However, if you offend anyone, you are by definition "causing offence", you dont have to offend everyone to be in the wrong.
Mind you, his "list" covered plenty of bases.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"
Mind you, his "list" covered plenty of bases.'"
Yes, I'm definately going to Hell on 3 counts (drinker, fornicator and atheist), and I'm a bit iffy on 2 or 3 other counts as well.
Strangely, I'm not that worried about it. As they say, threatening an atheist with God's wrath carries about the same weight as threatening him with Darth Vader.
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| Quote ="roopy"Yes, I'm definately going to Hell on 3 counts (drinker, fornicator and atheist), and I'm a bit iffy on 2 or 3 other counts as well.
Strangely, I'm not that worried about it. As they say, threatening an atheist with God's wrath carries about the same weight as threatening him with Darth Vader.'"
I totally agree.
However, that doesn't really reduce the insult from his perspective.
He is saying that if you dont repent (or go straight) you will go to Hell - very strong words for a Christian to dole out, maybe the ultimate threat.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"
As I have said multiple times, why on earth did Catalan feel so compelled to sign him.
'"
I would suggest because they are frightened to death of being relegated, as are Toronto Wolfpack. I only suggest that because as guests they can still be booted out when the 2022 deal comes in.
Argyle signs SBW and Gausch thinks that's a great way to make English clubs happy - on the basis that even though Catalans and TWP don't bring fans here, these signings would attract more English fans.
But I didn't really detect that hundreds of fans who came to Headingley only bought tickets to see S.B.Who?
However if Falau is to land in Cas, Wakey, Fartown or Headingley I'll certainly be there like a shot!! Who doesn't like a good row.....
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| Quote ="Donnyman"I would suggest because they are frightened to death of being relegated, as are Toronto Wolfpack. I only suggest that because as guests they can still be booted out when the 2022 deal comes in.
Argyle signs SBW and Gausch thinks that's a great way to make English clubs happy - on the basis that even though Catalans and TWP don't bring fans here, these signings would attract more English fans.
But I didn't really detect that hundreds of fans who came to Headingley only bought tickets to see S.B.Who?
=#FF0000However if Falau is to land in Cas, Wakey, Fartown or Headingley I'll certainly be there like a shot!! Who doesn't like a good row.....'"
Wouldn't you agree if Falau went to Cas he might be a bit of a hero, after all the club were fined for their fans homophobic chanting when the ex Welsh rugby union player Thomas had the misfortune of playing there.
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| Quote ="Someday"Yes he did I was their and spoke to him'"
Thank you for confirming. Saves me trawling through old programmes. Can you recall which final(s)?
So, just shows that RL has a long-history of allowing outspoken non-PC individuals to be part of its main events as well as inclusion. Which rather supports my view that this fuss about Israel Folau is utter nonsense.
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| Quote ="little wayne69"Wouldn't you agree if Falau went to Cas he might be a bit of a hero, after all the club were fined for their fans homophobic chanting when the ex Welsh rugby union player Thomas had the misfortune of playing there.'"
And the vast majority of Cas fans were disgusted with their behaviour, too.
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| Quote ="Dally"Thank you for confirming. Saves me trawling through old programmes. Can you recall which final(s)?
So, just shows that RL has a long-history of allowing outspoken non-PC individuals to be part of its main events as well as inclusion. Which rather supports my view that this fuss about Israel Folau is utter nonsense.'"
Sighting Manning at the Cup Final in the '70's, as a sign of the RFL inviting non PC comedians into the sport, is just a tough desperate.
It's outdated views that have caused the whole issue. Some of us, in fact most of the country, has moved on since then
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| Is folau himself been hypocritical working on the sabbath day?
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| Quote ="Dally"Thank you for confirming. Saves me trawling through old programmes. Can you recall which final(s)?
So, just shows that RL has a long-history of allowing outspoken non-PC individuals to be part of its main events as well as inclusion. Which rather supports my view that this fuss about Israel Folau is utter nonsense.'"
Sorry I can not remember I have been to Wembley at least 30 times for challenge cup and Great Britain and England games can not remember which he was at
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| Quote ="Kiyan" At this stage it appears Catalan Dragons are just taking the p*** and the RFL cannot do anything to stop it!'"
I dunno if there is a "bringing the game into disrepute" charge, but I doubt the RFL will blow this up to be a bigger shambles/bad publicity than it is now. Don't however forget Les Catalans are a guest club, in the English game by invitation. An Invitation to the 2022 new TV deal SL may not be forthcoming unless they behave and tow the line.......
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| Quote ="Alchemist1"Is folau himself been hypocritical working on the sabbath day?'"
Punishable by death apparently. Mind you, on the basis that we're all going to die anyway, perhaps that isn't too much of a threat.
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| Quote ="Donnyman"I dunno if there is a "bringing the game into disrepute" charge, but I doubt the RFL will blow this up to be a bigger shambles/bad publicity than it is now. Don't however forget Les Catalans are a guest club, in the English game by invitation. An Invitation to the 2022 new TV deal SL may not be forthcoming unless they behave and tow the line.......'"
They lose their expenses paid weekens in the south of france then though
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| Quote ="Donnyman"I dunno if there is a "bringing the game into disrepute" charge, but I doubt the RFL will blow this up to be a bigger shambles/bad publicity than it is now. Don't however forget Les Catalans are a guest club, in the English game by invitation. An Invitation to the 2022 new TV deal SL may not be forthcoming unless they behave and tow the line.......'"
You keep on repeating the "guest club" stuff.
In the SL constitution, can ANY club simply be voted in/out and are the original SL clubs protected
If so, are you proposing that Halifax, London, Oldham, Sheffield and Workington are brought back in and that we resurrect Paris.
Please let us have a link to the rules, stating who should be in/out of the top flight and how this would be agreed in the event of a reduction in the size of SL
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"You keep on repeating the "guest club" stuff.
In the SL constitution, can ANY club simply be voted in/out and are the original SL clubs protected
If so, are you proposing that Halifax, London, Oldham, Sheffield and Workington are brought back in and that we resurrect Paris.
Please let us have a link to the rules, stating who should be in/out of the top flight and how this would be agreed in the event of a reduction in the size of SL'"
There is no such thing as a guest club.
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| Quote ="Dally"Thank you for confirming. Saves me trawling through old programmes. Can you recall which final(s)?
So, just shows that RL has a long-history of allowing outspoken non-PC individuals to be part of its main events as well as inclusion. Which rather supports my view that this fuss about Israel Folau is utter nonsense.'"
Bernard was at the 78 Leeds-Saints final. Hardly a case of RL having a long history of involving non-PC types if you have to trawl back the best part of half a century to find an example though...
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| Quote ="IR80"There is no such thing as a guest club.'"
As Martyn Sadler pointed out when the Superleague clubs were arguing about the last TV deal and taking votes on it, Les Catalans abstained from votes as they were a guest club which meant not being or at least not acting as full members of the game here. The vote to allowed the MPG system to be carried 7-6 in the initial vote. Catalans did not vote.
The clubs then concluded that the majority of established member clubs wanted the MPG set up so they voted again because they did not want to publicly reveal a split game - and the vote was 12-1 in favour of the new system. Again Les Catalans in their status as "guests" meant they did not vote. The one vote against the MPG system coming in on the second vote was Koukash. See Martyn Sadler if you think there isn't such a thing as a guest club?
Koukash then started a campaign for top SL clubs to to split from the RFL. Eventually the split came. Read it up why don'tcha.
Then consider how Superleague are setting up for 2022 in which it appears one of the main rules is all clubs will have to run reserve teams, which plenty of clubs are happy to do.
But not TWP and Les Catalans who instead sign controversial "marquees" Think about it? See if you can spot where all this is going?
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"
You keep on repeating the "guest club" stuff.
'"
See above, if your still not sure of how Catalans and Toronto will get no real say on their SL future then try seeking clarification from the RFL or seek clarification from Superleague Ltd. You could write or phone. If you want a manservant to go looking stuff up for you, put a card in at the job centre. He could iron your suit and polish your shoes as well.
Again as reported in the RL press ([ido you buy the publications and read them?[/i) the reason TWP were promoted was not that it was their absolute right as full members, it was a legal agreement between the RFL and SL relating to the current set up that runs until the end of 2021 that no winner of the championships would be blocked because Superleague may have preferred someone else instead OR keep a club in that they wanted like they tried to do with HKR. This was widely reported - didn't you and IR80 read this?
In fact (and again look the thing up yourself) McManus publicly stated that he and most of his fellow chairmen preferred Toulouse to win the MPG as they saw Toulouse as more of a real expansion club than the phoney TWP.
Now turn your attention to the 2022 TV deal. You tell me "the rules" for who get's included?? Who will decide who is in Superleague and what will the legalities be around that - good luck trawling the "rules".....
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| srill no FACTS Donnyman, you know, a link to the operational rules and guidelines for guest clubs....
I wont hold my breath.
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| Quote ="IR80"srill no FACTS Donnyman, you know, a link to the operational rules and guidelines for guest clubs....
I wont hold my breath.'"
You've had your answer, which is why you can only post a snide reply. It's a cliched one as well - not got anything new for me?
The "Rules" will have nowt to do with the future make up of the game. When the RFL held the power they invented a system for deciding who would be in Superleague that was made up of asking for applications to SL and then sorting out the best 12 accordingly. That enabled them to choose who they wanted, Halifax were full members and complained threatening legal action when they were rejected, and were told to get lost. Get lost they did.
So go wallow in the "Rules" all you want but all the indications are Mr. Lenegan, Mr. Pearson, Mr. McManus and their legal eagle Mr. Hudgell won't be inviting TWP or Catalans into SL 2022.
You and Wrencat are welcome to provide the message board with the rules that will not allow such a rejection? Please also copy them to Mr. Hudgell.
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| Quote ="Donnyman"You've had your answer, which is why you can only post a snide reply. It's a cliched one as well - not got anything new for me?
The "Rules" will have nowt to do with the future make up of the game. When the RFL held the power they invented a system for deciding who would be in Superleague that was made up of asking for applications to SL and then sorting out the best 12 accordingly. That enabled them to choose who they wanted, Halifax were full members and complained threatening legal action when they were rejected, and were told to get lost. Get lost they did.
So go wallow in the "Rules" all you want but all the indications are Mr. Lenegan, Mr. Pearson, Mr. McManus and their legal eagle Mr. Hudgell won't be inviting TWP or Catalans into SL 2022.
You and Wrencat are welcome to provide the message board with the rules that will not allow such a rejection? Please also copy them to Mr. Hudgell.'"
As you clearly believe you "put a card in the job centre" and suits get ironed I think we are clear on how up to date your thinking is.
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