Why don't you go have a lay down?

I was impressed by your trivial knowledge! (I'm not sure what that says about me, though, and I'd probably rather not know ...)

They really are.

They're not, as the rest of my post - the part you chose to ignore - illustrates.

A European is a physical feature descriptor? Since when and what are the defining features? Are you picking the Swedish, Spanish, French, Italians, Irish or some other nation, maybe something a little Arian?

Nathan describes the physical looks, behaviour (sounds) and the like. And then qualifies with looks like a duck. Clearly he is saying that he thinks that Henderson should be treated as an Australian despite birth and you are here defending Saint's future coach. I wonder what you would be saying if Brown wasn't going to be coaching Saints next year?

This is a shocking attempt at trying to defend what he has said by using the language used, and failing miserably to find a difference.

Is there a difference between saying "he looks American" and "he looks [ulike an[/u American" for example? If anything, I'd say it's WORSE not to say "like an" as that would be implying "similar", whereas not to say it would be implying "exactly". So your defence of his language used actually makes it seem worse!

Either way, it's the last part that is not defendable. He has basically said that because he looks it and sounds it, he IS it.

He even says it: [url=http://web.orange.co.uk/article/sports/brown_blasts_mcnamara_picks"Ian Henderson is an Australian. He is not a Pommie."[/url


No, that was not the context he was making. If it was, he wouldn't have needed to mention his "nationality" as a reason not to pick him. If he thought performance alone should have been the reason alone to pick Robinson, he didn't need to say anything else, did he?

The fact that he brought up nationality, and incorrectly at that, has brought offence to Henderson. For that his ignorance, he should apologise.



Wow. Just wow. You are now trying to use the "nationality, not race" argument. It's still stereotyping, and if anything you've just shown your own ignorance!
Just because someone got their stereotype correct in your instance doesn't make it acceptable!

Other than on a rugby field, how much do you think Nathan Brown sees of Ian Henderson? Does he look Aussie when he's on the field? He's wearing the same clothes as everyone else! Did he wear thongs (flip flops to us Pommies) and surf tops when walking around Bradford?

I know Nathan Brown is your coach next year, but your attempts to defend him are pathetic and actually showing your ignorance yourself. He has stereotyped, and stereotyping more often than not causes offence. It's still a form of prejudice. It might not be prejudice based on race, but it's prejudice based on nationality and it's still wrong and completely unprofessional.

"Ian Henderson is an Australian. He is not a Pommie"

He says it in black and white what he means. He doesn't think he's "like" an Aussie. He says he IS. And he ISN'T a Pommie (translation: English).

Now if that can't be seen as offensive to someone who IS English and wants to represent England (especially being used as a reason to NOT select him), tell me what is...

Maybe SaintsFan walked around the US wearing a top hat and a monocle.

When I lived there I apparently looked and sounded Australian, and German, and in one case "Southern Iowan".

So they couldn't "pick you out as English" from a mile away? But that must mean SaintsFan is talking dog again...

Why? Just because he offended someone?

You offend me. So apologise.


Oh, it's stereotyping, yes. But it isn't racist, as Rock God X has been arguing.

Race = physical features/skin colour. If you don't like the term European to describe a person's race then use white or caucasion, whichever you prefer. They all describe race. Just as black, or Asian or African Carribbean also describe race.

Nationality does not equal race. Nationality is about culture, not looks.

So why did he previously represent Scotland?

The same reason Brough bounced between the two?

Because something that he said that was incorrect offended him.

If you are wrong about something, and you offend someone by this, you apologise. What is it that I have said that has offended you? If it's something incorrect, then I'll apologise. But I am correct that you are ignorant when it comes to prejudice.


The UN describes racial discrimination as the following:
[i"the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."[/i

What constitutes a race is highly controversial, and certainly not agreed upon (as you have just found out by using the term "European" to describe all people with European heritage).

You're running out of arguments.

You don't see Nathan Brown complaining about that, do you!

Methinks he doth protest too much. So, because of his depth of feeing for his English heritage, we wouldn't expect Henderson to jump ship if the Aussies came calling? (Unlikely since they actually tend to have a clued-up national coach who will pick the best of the eligible players for the team).

I agree about Brough, but the situation with the minor nations in RL is such that very few players would want to represent them if it meant they were unable to change allegiance. I dare say if you asked Danny he would admit it was a mercenary decision to gain rep honours at the time, thinking he wouldn't get the chance to represent England and he would not try to make out like he wore a kilt and played Flower of Scotland every day.

Do you expect Reed and Widdop to jump ship if the Aussies come calling?

I'll ask them next time we're over at Hendo's for tea and scones.

How many years do you have to live here to be able to represent England like chase did? Is there any other Maori/NZ/Aussie players been here that long to be able to get call up?

3 years.

Basically, come the World Cup, everyone that signed for an English club at the end of 2010 will be eligible.

So from Hull: Willie Manu, Tony Martin, Sam Moa, Mark O'Meley.

Kind of makes a mockery of representative rugby if you can just sign a decent player and put him into the squad 3 seasons later. Why don't the RFL just buy Cronk and Thurston?

I don't think Cronk or Thurston would be interested to be honest and Thurston is the highest paid player in the game at the moment so money could be an issue.

I realise you are joking Wellsy

I have? Really? I didn't even know.

I wasn't saying that Brown was being racist (though, as Wellsy has pointed out, the UN might think so), I was merely picking an obvious example of how someone could 'look' one thing and 'be' another. That I chose African is neither here nor there. The example, as I pointed out, works just as well if you substitute African for Italian, Turkish, or whatever.



Race may [iinclude[/i those things, but that's not necessarily all you would consider when deciding someone's race.



Not for the first time, this is utter nonsense. 'European' is not a word that describes race. It merely describes what continent a person is from. As has already been made abundantly clear to you, there are many different races spread across Europe. And neither is 'African' a description of race. A white person born in, say, South Africa is just as African as a black person born in Kenya. But they're not the same race.



If nationality is about 'culture not looks', that would vindicate my assertion that Brown is an idiot for saying that Henderson 'looks Aussie' and therefore shouldn't be allowed to play for England, would it not?

SaintsFan has gone incredibly quiet. I think it's safe to say he/she has lost this one.

That made me laugh

(i hope that doesnt offend anyone)

Well, apart from me, my old man and the people in my life that have had it rammed down their throats for many years... but other than that, it's rare!




I'm not sure what the situation is in the Isle of Man... but basically people here are considered English to most, they (for the most part) support English national teams in sport. But can happily go into English hating parts of the UK with a smile and not get roughed up lol!