You are right.

Britain exported so much around the world.

We gave people democracy ( just cos we nicked that of the Greeks)

We gave them the rule of law I so well remember the MagnanCarta (who cares if it was signed by and dreamt up by French Nobles)

7ou are right.

New can get some really good trade deals outside the EU

But cannot start discussing them till we are out if the EU which will be in two years time -plus the extra 4 months so the Tories can gain revenge on each other.



I cannot wait until we sign a superb gas and oil deal with Russia. It will save us a fortune in energy costs.

So what if America is unhappy with it. We will just say to the yanks bigger off it is nothing to do with you we are a strong Independent British nation we will do what we want.





Or not

This "The EU will want to play nice" stuff is so complacent, and so wrong. But then, don't listen to me. Try reading this:

[urlhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/the-eu-will-treat-britain-like-greece/[/url

Bear in mind this is a journalist who works for a newspaper which, under orders from its tax-exile owners, backed Brexit. So this is coming from the side trying to portray Brexit in the best possible light.

At some point, reality is going to hit. Half of the UK is indulging a panglossian fantasy of unprecedented proportions.

I think you are too bogged down in a doom and gloom scenario. Its dead obvious that the EU commissioners will not want to play nice but with us importing more from the EU than what we export to the EU the individual countries like France, Spain and Germany don't want to change the status Quo, and these countries amongst others probably don't want a nasty exit, the EU commissioners are the opposite because they want to teach us a lesson of being against a federal europe of ideals.

The transition will not be short term, we will end up with some bad deals, make mistakes............but the shackles are coming off and we can trade globally, for better or worse we don't no. Put the signs up "We are a Juncker Free Zone", Junk by name and Junk by nature.

This

The key is to get into the ribs of the individual ELECTED leaders of EU countries, not the UNELECTED Brussels Eurocrats (I know we will have to negotiate with them also)

One set has a completely vested interest in keeping trade between the UK & their country as stable as possible (self-interest), the other has a completely vested interest in making it as punitive to the UK as possible (to prevent a possible flood of countries following the UK's lead - self-interest)

What I don't understand is how BREMAINers are telling us (true or not) how look, Europe are going to punish us now, they're going to be vindictive and spiteful and really try to hurt us.
AND
They can't see the reason why some of us detest the whole system partly because of that said behaviour.

They don't have to do any of this, but no they want to punish us for having the temerity to say, we'll sort our own out thank you very much.

They are a bunch of undemocratic egomaniacal psychopaths, glad to see the back of them even more than i did Friday morning

Wasn't this whole union set up with ideals of peace in Europe yet they want to antagonise us?

It was set up to guarantee peace through mutual trade and mutual prosperity - with each country ceding a small amount of sovereignty in exchange for that prosperity and security.

You can't have the mutual prosperity without ceding the sovereignty to make the single market work. Call it punishment, call it what you will, ultimately it will come to the elected heads of state of 27 member nations hammering out a common approach to the UK. That will have nothing to do with these supposedly unelected Brussels bureaucrats that the far right press enjoys demonising but everything to do with the mindset of individual countries - for them it will be what trade deal works best for their countries. So what their motivations will be (securing ongoing trade, protectionism, local difficulties, obtaining a share of key UK industries) is almost impossible to forsee. Which is why I cannot understand why anyone who has the barest understanding of international trade would vote for us to be outside our key trading bloc in the first place.

Have people realised the REAL problem?
Catalans and Toulouse away games will be a nightmare for fans and their trips to the UK .
Tragic really tragic


.

Now there's a Brexit statistic that makes no sense - once again it paints the EU as one amorphous blob which utterly misunderstands who makes the decisions. Member states will assess things and the following are the actual facts:

UK - 44% of our exports are to the EU so there is a massive risk in unsettling that relationship.

France - 6% of their exports are to the UK.
Germany - 7% of their exports are to the UK.

These are clearly important to maintain, but not likely to trump other geopolitical considerations.

They represent their constituents. Not us.

this is brilliant. Warren Mitchell would be proud.

It's not spite. Its not revenge or punishment. It's self-interest.

The EU don't want all those lovely insurance and finance and banking jobs to move to frankfurt and Paris because they are vindictive. They want the money.

The EU will want to take as much as they can from us in negotiations. That's kind of how negotiations work. Give as little as you can and get as much as you can.

Up the Hammers

And there we go, no answer to any of the points raised - just in true Guardian style a sneering attempt to brand someone with a slur. Smokey you just don't get it, nobody thinks you're as important or clever as you do, you're just another loser with a Polytechnic degree spouting the same crap.

Anyway's Warren Mitchell was the actor you utter dullard and was a life long Socialist and as a matter of interest a lapsed Jew. Alf Garnett was the character your so desperately tryng to reconcile me with. Warren Mitchell along with Johnny Speight created the character to highlight the stupidity of some of views of the time - Alf was an anti hero. Funny thing is if Johnny Speight were around now I reckon he would be writing a sitcom about simpering Liberals who are far more anti democratic than Alf ever was - don't recall Alf ever demanding a democratic vote be overturned because he didn't like the outcome - you peole are comedy gold you just don't know it.

It would be funny if it wern't so sad that someone who sets himself up as Liberal inteligencia is so monumentaly stupid he can't even get his insults right - that Smokey is a special talent which you posess in spades (ooh ooh outrage mode, he said spades)



Bet you can't eat a bacon sandwhich in public either.

Negotiation, you don't know the meaning of the word - brass neck that's you.

Yes, protectionism they call it right? So we vote to leave for that reason, we are little Englanders but ok in a wider context?




Yes, so say they want to be completely (i'll use vindictive) ruthless for the best deal for them, which would mean condeming a whole nation of 65 million people, the 3rd largest population in the EU, that would still make them pyschopaths.

"We get more money but hey fk those people"

Again, capitalism has no room for sentiment i'm aware of that, but that doesn't make it right.

No sweetie. I don't think your little hissy fit was grounded in reality, far too on the nose as bitter angry uneducated bigot. Hence Warren Mitchell rather than Alf Garnett.

I'm not sure what your point is here. That the EU was trying to do the best for its members?


But they aren't saying f@ck those people, they aren't doing any of this. Sadly we are. There is an option for us to move forward in a collegiate manner, for us and the EU to make agreements for the best of everyone. WE have chosen not to be part of that. We have chosen to go it alone and in competition with rather than as a part of the EU. It's crazy to expect that the EU will help us on our way to their detriment

I think you need to calm down. You are taking too much of an exception to what Smokey has said. The right thing would be to stick to your point without lowering yourself to what you perceive Smokey to be insinuating about you.

FWIW Vote leave may have won, but it doesn't mean that it was the right choice for the good of our nation. History is littered with examples of wrong decisions being made.

Like Greece you mean?

yes, their members like Greece

Terms being imposed on Greece were due to their largesse. If they wanted bailed out financially then they needed to agree to some structural changes to make their economy sustainable.

It might be worth remembering that the UK economy after the Second World War with the Empire lost was in serious bother post Suez. By the beginning of the 1960s we wanted in to boost our trade. Our economy has grown and prospered within the EU since then. Lots of ups and downs but generally on the up. Outside of the EU we will need to build our own trade agreements with around 50 main countries. Yes of course people will trade with us why wouldn't they if we left, but I hardly think we'll be the ones in the strong position to dictate the terms. Also it's quite likely that terms proposed would be to deter others from taking the same route.

We will soon find out assuming Article 50 is ever enacted and with a deadline of 2 years it wouldn't take much for it to hit the rocks as all the other EU states need to approve it. A bit of phaffing around they could seriously harm it.

Mind you it was never a mandatory referendum and Parliament still needs to take a decision as we are a parliamentary democracy. Probably political suicide which ever way the next PM takes it.

Things are already much better than they were !
All those threats by the nasty "remain" camp, like having to set a new budget if growth slowed down, or inflation grew as a result of weak currency, both rubbished be the "leave" brigade and now we have a situation that we will still need to agree to the free movement of people, if we wish to have a trade deal with the EU.

Net result. We have lost our voice (however large or small it was) with in Europe, damaged the UK economy and we're still going to have to contribute to the EU if we want to trade.
Talk about shooting yourself in BOTH feet but, at least we will be a sovereign state (probably minus the Scots) and maybe even N. Ireland but, no matter.
At least Boris and Farage were honest through the campaign, although both are in denial about extra NHS spending (from the savings made on our contributions)

We have been sold a "pup" that will be peeing and crapping everywhere for quite some time.

Wigan was one area where pups were very popular. I always thought it was a dump.
Being from Burnley, I can understand the misguided fear of immigrants - although more live in Nelson and Colne.
Wigan and St Helens are some of the whitest areas in England.