Do you think the drop off could be down to Vikingman?

He's a bit like the nutter on the bus with a baked bean tin trying to convince you its an atomic bomb. Good to laugh at, but you wouldnt want to be seen in his company too often.



[size=50Only kidding VM you know us Fax fans love ya........ish ![/size

One of the consequences of the RFLs current policy won't be seen for ten or fifteen years and even then most of those who are still following the sport won't connect the two.

Without a Wakefield Trinity and the stars it creates to follow many, of the young kids will never take Rugby League to their hearts. A drastic reduction of adult supporters means an equal or higher reduction in junior supporters and therefore the loss of potential future fans and players.

Without a Neil Fox there might not have been a David Topliss, without a Derek Turner there might not have been a Trevor Skerrett, without a Keith Holiday there might not have been a Nigel Bell, without an Alan McCurrie there might not have been a Billy Conway, without a Graham Idle there might not have been a Gareth Ellis or a Ben Westwood and so on and so on.

Wakefield is one of the most fertile breeding grounds of quality Rugby League players in the world, up there with Wigan, but if you stop sowing the seeds then a few years down the line there's nothing to harvest. Worse than that, something else grows in it's place and when football finally wins the day in Wakefield there will be no way back for Rugby League. You don't begin strengthening a structure by knocking out one of the supporting pillars which hold the whole thing up!

The decisions of Lewis, Wood & Rimmer have a far greater reach than the next three years, their impact will last decades and may even inflict irreparable damage to the game. The direction in which these three are leading the game alongside the near amputation of Cumbria, the artificial loss of a strong Wakefield club and who knows who's next it is bordering on a level of incompetence that is almost criminal.

I'm not against expansion but you cannot artificially create a Rugby League culture where none existed and expect success. Expansion has to begin at the very foot of the game with constant, persistent and quality exposure to the sport within primary schools, kids summer coaching camps and secondary schools. You have to be realistic in your goals and understand that the outcome might not be hundreds of players, it might only be the the creation of a generation of young parents who have an affinity to the game. Those parents are like the early settlers of the wild west, it will take three generations of constant support to eventually create a culture.

You must do all this, you must be 100% committed to supporting this with every resource at your disposal and you must be willing to accept that it might or more likely will fail.

The provision of amateur facilities and the creation of local amateur clubs is the next step forward, then and only then do you begin to see a community of Rugby League followers who might one day form or support the formation of a semi-professional club playing in the lowest division of the RFLs league structure.

That league structure must be established, rigid and have integrity, it must be consistent in it's rules or else it becomes open to the corrupting influences of ambitious individuals who seek to circumvent it at the expense of those who compete within it.

IMO that is the only way to expand the game but it's a slow methodical process that would not deliver immediate results. Unfortunately we are governed by men who lack the vision to adopt such a system, they are men who desire the kudos of basking in the glory of their paper thin achievements.
I have no doubt that they understand their folly but such is their desire to make an instant mark that they will always be susceptible to a man with money promising the world on a stick.

Wake up fellas!
Nothing worth having ever came easy!

Let's all LOL at wakefield fans as they start to see things the way the "flatcappers" do now their cushty, comfy super league place is under threat.

And, before you start, your arguments are just the same, just three years too late to be credible. Ask yourself, do crusaders, quins, salford offer more to super league than my club, fax and put yourself in our shoes for the last three years. Jump through all the hoops the RFL ask you to and get nowhere. Win the championship and then watch crowds go down as fans realise there was no point in being champions - apart from a good day out! I think fax have done enough but won't be in SL.

As I say, SL licensing is great when it works in your favour - good of you guys to see the other side of the coin!

PS - I hope wakey stay, for all the points mentioned, you can't build a house on sand

Such intellect, I'm struggling to respond.

My argument re franchising hasn't changed since it was first suggested 4 years ago, if Wakefield survive this time my argument will remain the same, if Castleford go down my argument will remain the same.

FWIW I think Halifax have as much to offer SL and RL in general most other clubs.

Sport is about teams winning games to gain promotion or losing them and suffering for it.

When you adopt the "sport is now a business" mantra to the level in which the RFL have then rugby league stops being a sport.

Your post could easily apply to many towns in the RL heartlands currently languishing outside SL , Fax,Leigh,Oldham,Barrow,Whitehaven/Workington,Swinton Keighley Dewsbury/Batley

Having said that I agree with your post overall

It wasn't a pop at you bud, just the system in general. And how its dividing the people who support the game. Check out how widnes fans rate licensing now compared to three years ago.

And if cas get "relegated" do you think they will still support licencing or just try to pick holes in other clubs? Great isn't it?

Sadly - everyone can see what is wrong but licensing will never affect those big clubs with the voice - and they don't care anyway!

Sorry if you were offended clan - I realise my last post got off to a bad start now!

and so it should, It's obvious to anyone who wants to see, that you don't expand by weakening those elements of your product (if that's what RLs become) that have been the bedrock of your foundations for over a century.

No offence taken Freddie, us Wakey fans are a bit jumpy at the moment though!

I agree with what you've said.

But fundamentally are you the bedrock though? rubbish crowds and you've produced 2 maybe 3 good players in the last ten years: Leigh have a better production line! Tbh, Ive said it elsewhere but i've more of a problem with Salford tbh who in this three year period have offered next to nothing. Im really curious to see how they go in their new ground but if a decision was based on this 3 years and this three years alone then they've offered no more than Crusaders and should be making way for Fax with Wakey/Cas for Widnes imho.

Fax won't be placed in super league. We'd be awful if so, not having had an extra 3 months to prepare as widnes have. Another massive hole in the system there eh?

Widnes have always had an independant board, much like when we used to have an official forum and the one on Rivals.Net before they booted off all the RL sites - we did have about a year with two forums until RLFans won the battle for viewings if memory serves me right. That said, there are some right numpties on TIW so I'd much rather the Widnes forum stays as is as at least they know their stuff (never thought I'd say that!)

yes you are right a calculated guess.

is this not what the RFL did with London and welshies?

maybe its too early to determine wheather Crusaders has been a success just yet, but a team in London was a gamble. And to me it quite clearly doesn't and will never work.

'work' = be able to fund/run itself/be solvent without handouts from the RFL.

As a Halifax fan it is this that winds me up about the franchising 'rules'!

we would bring more to the top flight than London or Wales...as would Leigh, Barrow, Dewsbury, Batley....i could go on and on!

You say that but you have zero proof and this annoys me.
Why do you think Sky would be so insistent on a London franchise and not on a Halifax one? Think before you type next time

im sorry if it annoys you



however....most rugby league fans would agree with me.

do you not get the feeling that everyone is getting a little bit fed up with 'babysitting' Harlequins.

i attended a pre season friendly at the stoop with Halifax a couple of years ago. a nice setup to be honest.

its just a shame noones interested in going to watch them!

Hitler had the support of the majority, didn't make his ideas or opinions any more valid or reasonable than yours.

Remind me again what happened to the likes of Fax and Leigh the last time they were in the top flight?

Certainly in Fax's case they didn't manage to stay "solvent without handouts from the RFL", did they?

Ouch, burned.
No need for me to press submit on another comment I was about make in another thread in retort to one of your comments I found both amusing and daft

So once again we see the opinions of the sport split due to the issue of licencing , now my opinion is quite simple , I either want traditional yearly Promotion and Relegation or if that is not to be the case and we have a licence system

If we do have a licence system then what I do expect is more than what the RFL currently do to help its member clubs outside SL , and that doesn't neccessarily mean just cash given to clubs , but help on marketing at local level , because these clubs are essentially ' local clubs of a local sport for local people ' , they are not going to draw multinational blue chip companies for sponsorship and are unlikely to get the next arab shiek or russian billionaire deciding to fund them , they will survive or fail depending on the amount of local people and businesses they can draw through the doors

A token french club excempt from relegation and the occaisional appearance on TV wont make one iota's worth of difference to them financially

Which "handouts" are those?

Fair points, but would imposing a marketing strategy from the top down really be useful?

The clubs - you would imagine - would be better placed to know what does and doesn't work in their local area in terms of marketing. Wouldn't it make more sense for the RFL to give them a marketing budget (ring-fenced so it can't be spent on anything else) and any logistical assistance they need, rather than taking over their job for them?

I just want to say this first, I agree with franchising and what comes with it.

The problem for me lies with the RFL. It might be reviewed but an "Independant Panel" but this panel is made up of RFL employees.
The franchinse decision for me should be made by a totally impartial review panel and the results should be published as soon as the decision is made for all to see.

Im hearing this phrase "Rugby is a business now", well if rugby is a business why arent the RFL running it like one. It a professional sport run like amateurs. Theres isnt enough transparency at the moment and the decisions from top to bottom smack of one rul for one and another rule for others.

Right back on topic, I do agree with franchsing and i do believe it will benefot the sport in the long run, I think my club are a shining example of how it can work, all we need now is the stadium. But even though we are doing so well in every aspect bar the stadium, i still will not sleep easy until i see the Cas badge on Lewis' 10 pence slide show on tuesday morning......if it does......

More helpful than a French club that is excempt from relegation and the NRC 9 s , yes

What actual ' marketing strategy ' do you think a championship club actually has ?

Do they have anybody to actually put together a ' marketing strategy ' ?

Do they actually have anybody to action this ' marketing strategy ' ?

Do they actually know what a ' marketing strategy ' is ?

How many spare people do you think these clubs have that can be used for a ' marketing strategy ' ?

So the answer to your questions is

yes

no

My work is done here.

I should have entered "Fish O Mania"

Two things Mr Bug.
Are you exactly sure on what assistance clubs receive? Only reason I ask is that in interviews club chairmen seem to give praise to the RFL and their hands on assistance.
Secondly doesn't the old phrase 'live within your means' ring true? If you cant afford it don't do it? It does seem to me that clubs seem to be getting themselves into financial hardship then complaining about it. None of us have the answers but if you're in debt.. scale back. If you cant afford to dine at the top table then dont. FWIW I would like to see Chp clubs receive more from central funding. Despite still posting losses at many clubs SL clubs receive enough from the Sky pie already

They recieve money for one ' marketing ' person , which is pretty pointless unless that person has a fairly decent marketing budget which would allow them to employ people as and when needed to action marketing initiatives

Other than 4 or 5 clubs, most in SL are suffering financial hardship. Are you suggesting they should drop
out of SL?