they are selling season tickets arent they?

Some very valid counter points in there too. You'd really have to move the challenge cup final too if the magic weekend was later.

See its all well and good shouting the odds about they should do xyz but in reality its not quite that straight forward. Neither is that me saying everything is perfect, far from it.

See easy is this debating Business, taking other sides of the discussion and not petty name calling

Oooh, heaven forfend, they may have to buy tickets for both days.
Specifically for thursday nights in the summer? i dont know do they? if they do, you would expect they will need some 'notice' to set that sort of thing up wouldnt you.

price elasticity of demand my cheerleading friend, is a concept most businesses are pretty familiar with. It effects every price of every product they sell. It is no more a consideration for such an 'all access' ticket as any other product they sell. All you have done here is explain price elasticity of demand like it is somehow a negative.


If i were to be cynical, i would point out that you are making a pretty convincing argument against the super 8s as a concept here. Surely if we cannot find solutions to the problems this concept throws up, we maybe shouldnt go for it.

I mean they are our options arent they, either overcome these problems, or we cant have this concept.

Lots of people wont be able to afford/be able to attend/want to attend both days so that's a marketing risk that's out of the question and the RFL would rightly be laughed at for going with this.

challenge cup should be moved anyway. 1 round a month doesnt generate any kind of momentum

adult tickets are £40 for the weekend, 50% discount for season ticket holders. You can get your ticket for £40 and then go home if you wished, it would only be about £10 more than a normal leeds game. AND you would have a whole year to save up and organise for it.

Seriously can you imagine the stick the RFL would get for that one "can you believe they're organising a major event where a week before you don't even know what teams will qualify, who they'll be playing and on what day?!" they really can't win sometimes.

And out of the championship you could have something like 4 teams that wouldn't even know if they'll qualify if that top 4 is tight.

Considering the logistics, it's a batsh / t idea.

We do know 12 of the 16 teams who would be there and if last season is anything to go by we could be pretty confident of the other 4. if you are in SL you definitely are playing, if you are bradford or leigh you almost certainly are.

Regardless, it is still better than the current situation where, at the same point of the season, theoretically we wouldnt know who will play who, where, when and even in what competition for any of those sides.

As for the RFL not being able to win here, i mean its an issue entirely of their own making, that the solution maybe difficult doesnt absolve them of finding one or mitigate that they havent.

Them straws must be feeling bruised

how is that different to now?

i also dont think in practice it would be an issue. What are the chances that 8 teams can qualify, and none of the top 4 are guaranteed top 4 coming in to the last weeks of the season?

Last year Leigh finished 17 points from 5th, bradford 11, Sheffield 8, Fax 6.

perhaps you are right, perhaps the issues thrown up by the system cannot be overcome. Perhaps this system cannot be saved and we should just give up on it?

Except it's not comparable, as the magic weekend is a big event in a large stadium outside the heartlands.

As I said, ideally we'd have a 14-16 team league, home and away, simple play off system for GF and relegation. But we can't, so we have a convoluted system that some can see why they've had to go that way weighing up all the circumstances and others can't. How do we grow to a more common sense system? By developing more successful teams and more athletes, the whys and wherefores of which are too long for this post.

So, I agree it's not perfect or even close. Some of the ideas you've offered, though well meaning, are in my opinion logistally not possible. So if you're right and there are no solutions to developing the current format (though we've not established what the club's are doing) what format do you think the RFL should have gone with?

Not everybody is interested in (nor available even if they wanted to) attend both days. Not knowing until late what day your side is playing is just making a reason for people NOT to attend.

Honestly without the OTT reaction, do you think the Magic Weekend will sell better (or even the same as now) if the fixtures are only decided at the last minute (and with Cup semis and final around that time?) Because remember your whole issue is about improving attendances, this idea would just be hitting the Magic
Weekend numbers on the off chance it'd help the Super 8's which it wouldn't as you're just giving fans a more expensive than the usual week to pay for just before the Super 8's kick in. Will pay on the day spec actors and away fans turn up the next week if they've just splash out on a hotel and weekend in Newcastle? No I don't think so.



And here we are 8 months away from the Super 8's, plenty of time.



And here it is, the whole reason for Smokey's sulk. He didn't want rid of the old system and thus just wants to rubbish this one in protest.

Problems, as in more than one? You've only come up with one about the 8's and that's the attendances dropped compared to the regular season. Considering you argued at the old system needed more time even though it had several years and bemoaned "short-termism" it's hypocritical to suggest we "shouldn't go for this system" after just one season.

I know it's not some star spangled suggestion but what I've said is true, this new format needs time. Because of the confusing nature of it for many to get their heads around first time round it genuinely ISN'T enough to place too much emphasis on the first years results. Patience is what's needed and that doesn't cost a thing but something RL has too little of. I imagine you'll scoff at this because of your hatred for the format and come back with some childish response that you've stolen off William Eve whilst pretending your concern is for the game when it's really about your personal dislike for them ditching the old system you liked but most people had grown VERY bored of.

i honestly dont think the system makes an awful lot of difference. I think stability and ability to plan and execute is what makes the difference. An environment conducive to growth.

Even if the 16 teams were known with a few weeks to spare their's still the problem of who plays who?

Does the team finishing 8th in SL play 7th in SL on the Saturday at 5:30pm? Does the team finishing 9th play one of the Championship teams on Sunday at 1pm?

You'd have to have a....

1st vs 2nd - Saturday 7pm
5th vs 6th - Sunday 3pm
12th vs 4th Championship - Sunday 1pm
9th vs 1st Championship - Saturday 12pm

Format planned out in advance

So even if you know you're involved you don't know in what game, on what day, at what time until the last regular season game is finished and the placings are confirmed.

You stated "...whether we should have this system or not (we shouldnt, its a terrible worst of all worlds option)". So therefore you must believe it does make a difference and that you believe there's a better system. Unless on reflection you have altered your opinion.

We dont need to sell to everyone. We need to sell to maybe 80k people. Something we arent doing at the moment.

you are arguing because you are defensive. There is nothing you have put here that is effected by that change, we already have the magic weekend, so if it has the effect you are stating it already has that effect on different week. So moving it is a zero sum action at least, there isnt additional negatives.

I dont believe that fewer fans would attend the magic weekend if it was the first weekend of the 8s. I do believe far more fans would attend the super 8s than the particularly poorly attended first weekend of the super 8s. That would be a plus.


To do something they may or may not be doing? Is there a reason we should believe they are?


One of the criticisms of the new systems was it is confusing and of putting, the cheerleaders tell us 'oh you must be an idiot its not confusing' - attendances are down, the cheerleaders tell us its because its confusing and off putting.

Cheerleaders tell us that the new system cannot be judged after such a short time, patience is required and we need to stick with it despite fall in crowds-cheerleaders also tell us old system has to go, people have grown very bored of it and it was damaging after just 4 years and on the back of increases in attendances.

Do you want me to list the other negatives of the change? the ridiculousness of having the possibility of teams meeting their partner clubs in the super 8s? the fact the return of relegation has seen increase in overseas players necessitating and increase of the quota? the fact we have fewer clubs with academies? TV viewing down 15% according to the RL press? 400k plus fewer sl tickets sold in 2015 than in 2012?

nahh, your right, we can all sit back, relax and watch the super smashing great new system solve all our problems, once its stopped putting people off because its confusing of course.

I think our growth will come from long term investment and long term thinking from smart, innovative marketing, investment in facilities so the games are watched in a nicer more attractive environment, having the best rugby players in the world playing in our league, ones we bring in and ones we bring through, by spreading our game to new areas at amateur and pro level, by bringing on board blue chip sponsors, by acting like what we are a fast, tough, spectacular sport played by world class athletes. These are all primary factors in our growth

My opinion is that such things are encouraged by a structure closer to that of the NFL. I believe in some ways the type of structure we have now discourages long term thinking, long term investments.

However even if we have a structure closer to that of the NFL if those primary factors arent addressed we wont grow, and conversely even if we have this structure, if we do address those primary factors we will grow.


its pretty clear to me, that we still arent addressing those primary factors, some are wedded to that the system will solve all our problems. They think, like Steve Gill seemingly thought all they had to do was open the gates and the super smashing great new system meant people will walk in

Someone can't take a joke.

isnt the point of the magic weekend to watch all those games?Isnt it its USP?

You wouldn't be getting more fans attending though would you. Just over 40k went to the 4 Super 8's game the opening week, as we've seen from previous years the Magic Weekend gets around several thousand less than that and that's when it's put in a position in the calendar to spread it out particularly in terms of people having to splash out money.

With CC semi's for 4 teams, a Cup final for 2 teams and neutrals, hopefully in theory more fans turning up to Super 8's fixtures, playoffs, GF and then Internationals.....all you'd be doing is cramming even more financial expense into a short period for fans and it would hit the Magic Weekend.

Also using it there at the opening Super 8's game takes away the advantage the top 4 in SL and the top 2 in the Championship earned to have 4 home games instead of 3 thus taking away from the regular season in which we are trying to build up.

Also a massive flaw in having the Magic Weekend at the start of the Super 8's is timing. Super 8's start at the beginning of August, the same time as Premiership football teams are about to start their season.....if you thing Newcastle United or Man City are going to accept 8 games of RL to be played on their pitches at that time you're dreaming. The current date for the Magic weekend works because the football season has just ended.



That clubs aren't thinking of ways to best improve their profits and finances??? Nahhh, I'm sure they're just sat around playing Angry Birds in their offices whilst hoping some guy on the internet is trying to come up with all he answers for them.



I see you're going to carry on writing like a child then and cry foul that you want a serious debate

So which is it, you say attendances were up, which they weren't as William Eve's last few yearly attendance threads showed. But then point out that Season Ticket sales were 400k down before the 2015 season started compared to 2012.

Let me guess, all those 400k ST's disappeared solely upon hearing the new format and not because the last few years had driven them away. All those problems occurred simply off the change and nothing to do with the old format strangled the life out of the game? The old system that saw the title sponsor picked up by lorries for nothing and en no title sponsor. The old format that didn't stop the likes of Bradford and London still stumble further into mess and didn't help prepare Wakefield at all for the first season in this format. It's taken Brian Smith and Wakefield a few months to be better prepared for this upcoming season than the club were last year after having several years to sort themselves out. If anything this new system could be the making of them as what's just happened to them and how close they came should've given them the kick up the backside they desperately needed, instead of just going through the motions year after year.

The idea that the old system let teams build is a pipe dream, in reality it just offered them a chance to go through the motions. It shunted the growth of the top teams and the top players as the competition grew stale both financially and quality wise just on the very wishful thinking that the smaller teams would one day many many years down the line would catch them up.

Is this new format without flaw, of course not, any structure has its flaws but a lot of what we've got is still a hangover from the previous structure and you don't shake them off in an instant.

Might be the point in theory, but we all know that doesn't happen. You don't see all the Leeds and Wigan fans crammed in there 4 hours before their game to watch Salford vs Widnes.

I wouldn't know what the NFL structure is, but if it's anything to do with 10% ball in play and 90% commercials, watching replays and people talking then no thanks.

What are you talking about? no Magic Weekend has got fewer than 40k. Last year got 68k
Rugby league isnt poor. Rugby League fans arent poor. Tickets arent expensive. There are current CC games in every month of the year

So you mean it takes away the imbalance of the super 8s, and the uncertainty of the amount of home games a side gets.

Both the current date, and the date proposed are in the football offseason. We have also held it mid season. Also to accomodate the Qatar world cup in the winter of 2020, seasons will begin to start and end later
brilliant, you can point to some of these innovative ideas they are implementing then can't you.........

faux indignation doesnt cover up your lack of argument. Especially when your tone is far from genial.

No they were up. crowds grew from 2009 to 2012. The good thing about facts is that they are true whether you are aware of them or not. i didnt say that at all. Simply that 400k fewer people attended an SL game in 2015 compared to 2012.

Good straw man. I have no interest in it, your 'guess' is nonsense.

Then why did crowds grow from 2009 to 2012? why did no team finish bottom twice in a row? why every team bar bradford qualify for the play-offs? why did sides like Cas and Les Catalans finish bottom before growing to challenge? You do realise that Wakefield qualified for the play-offs in 2012 right? and qualified for the play-offs under franchising twice yeah? But nah, look at how brilliant they are now, unheard of for wakefield to not just going through the motions year after year. except for that year they finished 5th, 2009.
None of your suppositions are borne out by reality.

excuses, excuses, excuses.