So do I, sponsor 2 players and chuck a few bob in other areas. Its the ones who have walked I meant.

Smokey has his vision and even though its a version of the emperors clothes he is passionate about belittling any alternate opinion - don't rise to it, pity him instead as change is on the horizon.

Do you mean re. ticket sales?

Despite Smokey's caricature, I'm not sure I qualify as a 'critic' on this one, because I haven't criticized RLWC ticket sales nor the way in which they've been conducted. I entered the thread in agreement with a poster who suspected that we'd still have problems of large numbers of empty seats in some games - but this isn't a 'criticism', its just what I worry is true. I don't know if its 'different' because they may already have this sort of plan, but FWIW I'd have a back up plan to fill them for the sake of TV. Sure, the cynical RU press might comment that we had to give seats away, but your average viewer doesn't care much and a few snide comments are worth the benefit of full stadia...its just SO much better for the brand. Besides, if the free seats are given to various public servants such as army, etc. its a bit hard to knock without coming across as mean-spirited. I also totally understand why you wouldn't go public with the back-up plan when paying tickets are still on sale, so (no doubt to Smokey's surprise) I'm not sat here steaming with rage because I haven't seen such a plan yet.

That’s the difference between you and RLbandit and me is honestly couldn’t not care less what changes are made if they work. I don’t want the game to suffer so my ‘side’ gets their way. I don’t want franchising because I like it, I want it because I think it is the best way to go for us. If we went to P+R I wouldn’t want it to fail so that we would go back to franchising. I would want it to succeed.

You two on the otherhand are so entrenched in your position that because the game has gone a different way to what you want, any success has to be ignored because if it is a success then there isn’t a reason to change it, and any negative over-played because damage to the game might necessitate change. It’s a pathetic and childish standpoint.

Been thinking back, and I am pretty sure that the same people knocking ticket sales were also went off on a big rant about how the KIDS mascots were a disgrace and proof the competition is doomed, back in November. Says it all.

To illustrate my point...

Correct, though in this instance the targets of opprobrium and ad hominem attack appear to be mainly you and gutterfax for having the audacity to apply reasoning and realism to the world cup ticket sales debate. At least it's been fun witnessing the further unravelling of TorquemádaTA and his agenda

Your schtick has become boring now. Your NRL fanboy trolling was a lot better.

Its been downhill for you ever since your enforced absence for anti-semitic jokes about the killing of jews during the holocaust.

So your 'solution' to this imaginary problem is to give multitudes of tickets away for free because you don't have faith in RL fans to support their game. Probably the same fans like you who sit at home and deathride the tournament months before it has started and ignore all evidence to the contrary.

I'm not sure which matches you think will have 'problems with large numbers of empty seats', but if there are empty seats at any World Cup match then it's the fault of RL fans. Not the RFL, RLIF or anyone else, if there are empty seats and you haven't attended the match then it's your fault, and you have no right to complain about anything if that's the case.

Anyway guys, can someone do the math for me. I want to take a few family members to an England game but the pool stages are going to be blowouts, apart from the Aus game, which is in Wales(too far to travel)

The 3rd Quarter final isn't going to cut it against 3rd place in the b pool.

When England win that game, when will their next game be? (and who might they play?)

I want to buy tickets for a competitive England game that isn't in Wales, if possible.

If not we'll just buy tickets to the final

I can't speak for other posters, but I don't *want* any negatives to affect the game. However, it's not completely illogical to hold a view ( which you may vehemently disagree with ) that there are serious problems with the incumbent leadership and if some form of 'bad' news w.r.t. their performance ( not so bad as a failed WC I might add! ) helped to shift the people that some of us (rightly or wrongly) think are a big problem, then we might also believe (rightly or wrongly) it could be a small price worth paying leaving the game in a *better* state in the not-to-distant future. I've said previously, that its a horrible thing to have to say, and if there was a better way to see the back of them, I'd take it.

It might be hopelessly naive to believe this - you are entitled to think so - but it certainly doesn't stem from anything other than a love for the game I've paid to watch for 35 years ( and played for 18 ).

It happens all the time...imagine, I don't know, that you had a Formula One team but thought the chief mechanic was useless. You want a replacement because you think its the only way to challenge for a title. Problem is, he sometimes makes the car a little faster, and people say, " no, keep him, he's doing OK ", but you believe that despite the occasional improvement, he's fundamentally not good enough. You could easily conclude that you might be better off with a few mechanical breakdowns to get the guy moved on. As I say, could be hopelessly naive, and leave you with someone worse, but it doesn't make you bitter and pathetic, nor is it inconsistent with ultimately caring about the best long term interests.

My family are all football heathens who don't care for league, so even though any game could be a day out I want to take them to an England game that matters. I'm too drunk to do the finals maths.

The first England game would be great if not for the fact it's being played in Wales!

England v Fiji will be a competitive game.

The only thing more tragic than pessimistic fans/trolls are the ones who then act like martyrs confronted by a baying mob........more of this self importance thing again.

What do you think the 'serious problems' are?

I don't know. I mean, I'd buy that, but I'd rather England vs Aus or NZ in the finals. Or any Aus v NZ games.

I know with Finals games you never know but you kind of do because, lets be honest, Fiji aren't a real threat (I don't think)

Probably end up buying tickets at Wembley for the semis. Bit of a drive but w/e

I wouldn't give anything away until the last minute, but, if logistics allow a way to be able to fill seats a few days out if it looks like being a problem, then it might be a consideration. Don't get me wrong, the idea is laden with difficulty including 'why the heck is he getting in for free when I paid?' - that's why, if it has any legs at all, it could only feasibly be a last minute offer to public servants of some type.

If there are empty seats, I don't care who's 'fault' it is, nor am I complaining. I'm saying that *if* there's a prospect of lots of empty seats for a televised match, and there's some feasible solution near the day to help improve the image presented, I'd like to see it. It might not be needed, and it might be an impossibly daft idea. Either way, you need to calm down and realise that nowhere in this thread have I derided the tournament or ignored evidence.

By the way, did you attend the last swimming world championships? I just wondered, because whilst I know absolutely nothing about it, if they had any empty seats, it couldn't [ipossibly [/ibe in any way an issue to be looked at by the people that work in the sport, it could ONLY be the fans fault. Technically that makes it your fault too, because you didn't go. What's that you say? You're not a swimming fan? Oh, right, I thought the idea of world cup was to also attract new fans.

Let's make the consequences of your position clear: None of the bodies involved have ANY responsibility for selling tickets, marketing, or anything else - it is SOLELY the fault of the fans if there are any challenges at all with attendance.

you have said you would. its not completely illogical, it is however pathetic and childish, pointless and counter-productive.

Just jumping into the whole ticket sale conversation. Did anyone hear that the British and Irish Lions sold out the Aus tour in about 15 minutes?

I want to know how the f................k they did that!? According to most I know in Aus union is a non-entity. How did they still out so quickly, even taking into account the wealth of union fans?

I'm convinced they give away tickets recklessly. I know for club rugby that's what they do in England, just straight give away tickets to businesses.

Why not NZ v PNG at headingly, only £15 a ticket, should be a great game.

I'm perfectly calm, you've made numerous negative posts on this thread and now your sole suggestion is an ill-formed idea that you admit isn't very good. In that case why have you made so many negative posts on what was originally a positive thread?





I'm not a fan of swimming, I couldn't care less about their world championships. I certainly don't go on swimming forums and talk about how I expect their tournaments will be plagued by problems of empty seats.

If you claim to be an RL fan who wants the sport to succeed and then doesn't attend World Cup matches given the opportunity, then it's your fault if there are empty seats at the stadium. No doubt however that many alleged fans will find an excuse to not attend and then complain about the RFL regardless of the actual merits of the situation. I'm not sure why you felt the need to make up a ridiculous statement and attribute it to me, but certainly if you continually complain about empty seats at matches that haven't taken place yet and then don't attend, you are a hypocrite at best.

Fiji will probably have a stronger team than England did in 2008.

Where did I 'complain'? A poster in this thread pointed out that there would be empty seats at some games. I agreed with that.

Another poster asked what would the critics do differently. I have nowhere in this thread criticized the WC or the ticket sales. You're aware that I don't have much time for the RFL, so you're reading criticism where it isn't there, since you blindly assume every comment has the sole intention of 'being negative'. The problem with that lazy assumption ( as opposed to actual reading ) is that its self-reinforcing.

However, despite rejecting the label of 'critic' in this context, I gave the first thought that entered my head. If I had entered this thread saying "the RFL are doing the WC all wrong" it would be reasonable to demand a good idea from me. Since I didn't, I reserve my right to post half-d ones.

If you're saying "you have no right to criticize the RFL unless you go", I agree with you. ( The only plausible way someone could object to your point is the RFL had somehow made attendance particularly difficult or expensive. They haven't.)

However, I haven't criticized the RFL w.r.t. the WC and am attending several matches. Is that sufficient to get your permission for me to think-out-loud about those games which might have empty seats? Or is the mere mention of an empty seat just negative pathetic, anti-RL ranting that you won't tolerate?

So if you have no criticism of the RFL or the WC preparations up to this point, then why have you made numerous negative posts on a positive thread regarding WC ticket sales? Your initial contribution was that the tournament will be plagued by problems of empty seats, to the extent where the RFL would have to look at giving away tickets en-masse. If you think the RFL have done all the right things up to this point then what could possibly lead you to this conclusion? Why did you object to my assertion that empty seats would be the fault of the fans, surely if the RFL have done everything in their power and you still expect there to be empty seats then only one party is to blame for that?

You're free to do whatever you want, just don't expect not to be picked up on when you make bizarre, illogical posts, especially when you then claim to be a realist and that other posters are deluded for not agreeing with you.

1) I didn't realise threads were marked from the start as 'positive' or 'negative'. Next time someone starts a 'negative' thread, you'll promise not to post an opinion on it, right?

2) "So if you have no criticism of the RFL or the WC preparations up to this point, then why have you made numerous negative posts on a positive thread regarding WC ticket sales?": Difficult as this may be to comprehend, it is possible to express concern about empty seats, without implied criticism of the RFL or WC preparations. The poster to whom I first responded raised a sensible point ( I frankly don't care what 'type' of poster you think he is, or his posting history - I'm happy to read something on its own merits). The point being that we shouldn't be unaware of the likelihood that there'll be games with empty seats. Wishful thinking won't change this, so it's not the worst idea to think of solutions to the image problem that can create on TV. My 'solution' is no doubt a useless one, but hey. At no point have I said anything like "there'll be a load of empty seats because the RFL have messed it up".

3) "Why did you object to my assertion that empty seats would be the fault of the fans, surely if the RFL have done everything in their power and you still expect there to be empty seats then only one party is to blame for that?" False dichotomy. Has it never occurred to you that NOBODY might be to blame? Why are you obsessed with trying to guess who I'm blaming, or for that matter, blaming the fans yourself?. We are where we are - if you must blame someone for the fact that we probably won't sell-out every ground, where do you want to start? Pick anything or anybody starting with the RFU circa 1895.