At the moment I am struggling to see a future for rugby league in England as a fully professional sport. The truth is that, for the vast bulk of its history rugby league in this country was semi-professional. Even when Wigan were at their height pre-superleague they still had numerous players with "proper jobs". The only thing that allowed the game to go genuinely full-time professional was an influx of money from Sky when they were willing to splash huge amounts of cash to acquire as much sport as possible. Now that the TV landscape has changed that money may not be available any longer. To me, rugby league in this country has three options - secure another reasonably lucrative TV deal (if that is even possible), make up that revenue from other sources (I can't see how this can happen at the moment) or start preparing to manage the transition back to a semi-pro game. Since the NRL is in a much more advantageous financial situation than here, that third possibility then basically kills international rugby league outside of the immediate orbit of Australia.
Would this be the death of the sport over here? Perhaps. Sports don't "die" as long as there are people that want to watch and play but I feel that our game has been artificially living beyond its means for twenty-odd years, and I worry that we are on the verge of a reckoning.

Your comment about RL being semi professional for most of its history, is just irrelevant.
Most sports, especially Union start out as amateur.

However with TV and advertising capable of offering plenty of "investment" into many sport's, which in turn allows those sports to pay their participants, which in turn increase the fitness and in theory the speed and quality of the athletes taking part.

If, however, you are suggesting that RL in the UK and Europe is no longer capable of attracting sufficient revenue to fund a full time professional league, well, that is something completely different. The question then would be, what happens to the current pro clubs and players.

The better players would migrate to Union or down under and the rest would either play amateur or semi pro sport or "get a proper job" and we would be left with something similar to the National League in France.

However, it's a downward spiral and the sport has to grow or die, at least as any kind of pro sport.

Accepting you are being provocative, why is the future of RL based solely in one town/city in France. London the capital of the UK with investment could be huge.

Everyone has valid points on the growth of the game but all seem to be missing the main way to increase spectators on to the terraces. The only way that we will grow numbers and get the big sponsors to follow is at grass roots level. Until you have teams at under 6/7/8 like union and football do then there will be no significant increase in growth. You have to have the kids wanting to play/watch and that translates to bums on seats at the top level

London is a soccer city. It will never change. No corporates will invest in rugby league in London.

Toulouse has a strong rugby history and fan base.

Toulouse is a better bet for building rugby league.

London have had MASSIVE investment and done nothing with it.

i'll be seeing a few of those on sunday when they play hull fc at brantingham park. looking forward to it

There's no such thing as debate with you let alone facts. Toulouse have no money, Toulouse's fan base was laid bare in the play off's with only 1,000 fans a game and Toulouse don't develop pro/SL quality players in any number at all, the odd few go to Catalans as they can't develop many as the French grass roots game is dying and so on to.....

The sport broke away from Union in 1896. Clubs like Hull, Leeds, Wakefield, Saints, Wigan and Warrington did this.

They hoped to expand and clubs like South Shields, Coventry, Ebbw Vale, Streatham and Mitcham, Lancaster and Liverpool came and went.

"Growth" failed and continued to fail from 1896 to 2020. It hasn't grown in 124 years [ubut nor has it died[/u - the last quarter of a century has seen it operate professionally.

It only dies two ways.

1. If the game can no longer get a paying TV deal or
2. If the game substitutes real clubs of substance for phoney nonsense clubs.

Everyone doesn't have valid points on the growth of the game. As per my last posts it hasn't grown in 124 years BUT has survived only through it's strength along the M62 in Yorkshire and Lancashire where it has strong [ugrass roots[/u. As above[u those grass roots are 124 years old and counting.[/u

And yes if they put phoney clubs into SL and remove clubs of substance that kills the game. The only way to continue to survive is don't kill the grass roots. As long as the likes of Bradford and Widnes languish in the Championship whilst Catalans and Toronto are in Superleague and plans to replace the useless Salford Wakey and HKR with Ottawa Toulouse and New York exist then we are in danger of a quick death.

That doesn't make me a flat capper - it makes me (and you) realists.....

How are Hull KR useless?

Expansionistas constantly quote English clubs as being useless and work on the idea there's no point in two clubs in Hull and garbage like that. The Hudge has committed himself further to the club through some element of purchasing the ground, plus they have gone back to having their own academy. 20K and 12K for the derby games last year. Just before Superleague the same games were attracting 6.000 (1993)..............In their new stadium Hull pulled 19,000 for the Bradford game. Bradford and Leeds ganes topped 20K at one point. Get Bradford back in.

Last year worst league crowds for Hull & HKR were against Les Catalans. If people want to kill RL then "expand" it, that will kill it.

There isn't the apetite for SL in Bradford, and I very much prefer a weekend in Perpignan to an afternoon in the s41t4ol3 that is Currystan.

Would you like to elaborate this comment.

Ah but it's the place to be for a curry.

I'd disagree, better places in Birmigham, Manchester and London.

It was a crass description, and if anyone took offense I apologise, it was very much t.i.c.

The small playoff crowds were played at the obscure home stadium that they now have. Next season they will play at the better known and more capacious Stade Ernest Wallon.

Toulouse showed what is possible from them in Super League with the 6000+ crowd at Stade Ernest Wallon in 2019 against the Toronto team. Soft core French rugby fans will come to Ernest Wallon, especially if their home town club is playing against a recognised international team at a professional level.

Once they are promoted to Super League Toulouse will be able to attract sponsors and they will have money.

most of us will be deceased by then

You probably will be deceased because you have only managed one post on this forum throughout the course of your life. I fear that you don't have the energy to stay alive for the next year or two.

Toulouse should get promoted to Super League by the end of this year, but the end of 2021 at the latest. If you fear that you won't live that long, please get in touch with me and I will try to refer you to a good doctor in France, with the object of increasing your longevity.

The definition of obscure here is [u"not known to many people[/u" so somehow your excusing the 1,000 crowds on the basis they didn't know where the ground was.

It's far more likely they may have had to pay to get in and didn't fancy it, it also looks very much like Toulouse may not have been not telling the truth about the crowd at at that TWP game which is a tactic TWP use regularly to pretend they are glamorous and people are falling over themselves at $$200 a ticket to see them. That tactic could not work against English clubs whose fans visiting Toulouse have commented that the crowds on the day were nowhere near the published crowds. When playing TWP there's no away fans to be witness to the poor crowds.

I think I know where they went wrong! They didn't put a free entry wine festival on

.

Shouldn't that read could get promoted by the end of the year Walter, that would make the rest of your sentence but the end of 2021 at the latest much more credible, apologies in advance for any grammatical errors.

The promotion issue is interesting Wayne. Superleague wanted to block TWP's promotion as they don't want them, nor do the bulk of fans here, but the current TV contract is based on a system that requires promotion and relegation to happen through the MPG game. That system is contractual, and all clubs signed up to accept it after it was voted for 7-6 by SL clubs. If Toulouse were to win the MPG at the end of this year then contractually and legally they would enter Superleague 2021.

The SL clubs clearly want Mr. Beaumont to back Leigh this year so they will go up and we won't have another useless overseas club that has few fans, develops no SL quality players and won't get us a French TV deal. Beaumont hung back last season but will be all out to get Leigh promoted rather than TO with the blessing of SL bosses. If not a quarter of Superleague could be non English, non productive in terms of developing players, and blocking clubs SKY and their viewers would prefer to be on TV like Leigh, Bradford and Widnes. This is a horrible mess caused by the war between RFL and SL at the last TV contract. The RFL have now being squashed/ruined and 2022 Superleague will be fully in charge. They will seek to satisfy SKY with as English a league as they can, which is what SKY want, and this may even mean the end for Les Catalans if that league is only 10 clubs on a reduced contract value.

Again check on TWP's recruitment, all they've really done is sign up the same team for this year and next if they stay up, and hidden that by the marquee signing, Check out Ottawa and New York both postponing entry to the RFL. Neither doing anything to develop their clubs. Maybe check out Toulouse coming clean on their actual attendances.

You keep saying this then offer no evidence what so ever.

I look forward to the direct quotes from super league executives.

Cheers

I’m surprised you know what evidence means.

I look forward to you countering his opinion with one of your own instead of trying to disrupt any meaningful debate on here regarding Toronto or any other pie in the sky expansion club, at least Donnyman puts forward explanations why in his opinion it won't work, whereas you and Walter refuse to debate the subject and simply use it as an excuse to use it as an exercise to practice your less than subtle wind up techniques.