We needs the best TEAM that doesn't always mean having the 'flashiest' players in every position, Sinfield was captain last year he knows the squad and the players he is a good leader and despite what rubbish is spouted on here he is an excellent RL player and well respected by his peers. And also has the big game mentality.

That's all very well but does he have the skills to break the Aussue defence? IMO no he doesn't. A good kicking game won't beat the Aussiess on its own.

On numerous occasions we are in the game for about 60 mins then Australia score 3 tries in 5 mins to kill the game. When we have the ball we must make it count.

Sinfield comes good at play off time because all of a sudden, Leeds learn how to defend. They look like they will never concede a try at times. This is when Sinfield becomes a great player. He kicks into the corner because he knows Leeds defence won't be broken.

But for England it's a completely different situation, For Leeds be can put in a great kick and invite the opposition to have ago, Leeds defence wont be broken. he can't do this with England as kicking into the corner and asking Billy Slater to have a go could result in them scoring a try.

If we were the better side and we could go sett for set with OZ and be confident tjey couldnt get passed us then I would have Sinfield in our team. But we can't as OZ can score from anywhere. We need to attack and take the game to OZ.

I think dropping Sinfield for Brough on the basis that it makes us more likely to outscore Australia in a try fest is among the worst ideas I have heard, pretty much ever.

Fair points which is why sticking with a Sinfield/chase partnership my be the best option, Sinfield to organise chase to attack.

Maybe a burrow/Robinson type player on the bench to come on when forwards are tiring, Sinfield then could spell at 9 or 13.

Where does it say I hope we outscore OZ in try feat. My point is when we have the ball we need to make the most of it. Not just kick well and try stay in the game. When we have the ball lets attack. Brough can put on a good kick when we need to relieve and build pressure. But when we get in OZ's 10m line we should attack which I believe Brough can offer much better than Sinfield.

So who's your organiser and leader? Sinfield has this over Brough in spades.

Because if it isn’t a try-fest we lose.

If we attack every play we turn over more ball, if we don’t have the ball Australia have it, the more Australia have it the more they will score.

What we need to do is mix it up, have someone controlling the play so that there will be times when we our sets are draining the Aussie forwards, times when the sets are used to bring the fringe defenders in, times when the sets are used to gain territory and yes, sets when we attack, throw the ball around a bit and create pressure. There hasn’t been a better player in the SL era at deciding when to keep it tight and when to spread it out than Kevin Sinfield. It’s a big reason why he has made Leeds so successful.

Also If you were going to compare Sinfield to Brough, surely it would be Brough who was more of a threat from distance and Sinfield much more of a threat up close, Sinfield is much better at the short crash ball and flat cut out pass, and his short kicking game is better.

But that is exactly why Sinfield has an advantage over Brough. He's been part of the International set-up for over 10 years (most them not used to best ulitize him).....since 2011 though he has been the starting 6 and took over the captaincy last year and has been involved with all the training camps of recent years. To effectively 'start over' again in this position now would only be correct if you had a world class player at 6 (and unless Tomkins starts playing there week-in week-out for Wigan then we don't).

It may not be as easy for his leadership to take effect at International level but he took Leeds to the GF in only his second year as captain, and at that stage in career he was still quite young and learning. Now he knows everything about being a captain.

And as I alluded to before, judging what him and Brough are doing in attack at the moment is slightly wrong. If you swapped Burrow and Lunt around and Brough had to try do 27 tackles a game then just watch him struggle to impact games. It no coincidence that Leeds' best performance in the regular season games last year was Catalans at home......a game Lunt played 80 mins at hooker with Burrow out injured, Sinfield had a great game involved in most tries. He also almost single handedly dragged us through the first part of 2011 when McGuire and Peacock were out injured (we happened to have Buderus a proper hooker at 9).

With Roby, McIllorum or Lunt likely to be 9 for England then Sinfield will be just fine if the forwards play well (they didn't in the 2011 4 Nations Final).

We was talking about Sinfield, sorry for not knowing about the conversation in your head

Some people really need to have a word with themselves and watch Sinfield closely like I have done for a few years to see the fascination in him. Most of the on field organizing comes from McGuire, Burrow and Peacock, I've never seen a half back kick the ball out on the full on the last tackle as much as this guys. He's an average player at best! I don't often agree with the convicts over the pond but when 'Sir Kev' won the Golden Boot it make RL the laughing stock of sport. With Sinfield as captain we've as much chance as Nigeria of winning the World Cup, but you keep listening to Stevo's words of wisdom.

Jamie Peacock and Rob Burrow the arch-organisers from half-back. That really is an interesting one.

Rob Burrow would probably be the best player in the world ever if he was able to organise aswell as Sinfield.

Burrow can barely organise himself let alone the rest of the team, unless missing the overlap and running up blind alleys is what classes as 'organising' which considering the giants love in for Brough is a distinct possibility.

Jeez a loss in the cup and Burrow is all of a sudden useless. Him and Hall are the only players i'd take from the Whinos.

Brough? He does it for the Giants week in and week out. Sinfield does organise better but not enough to have the 6 shirt IMO.

Tomkins. Watkins, Hall, Graham etc arent suddenly going to be running round like headless chickens because Sinfield isn't there to organise. Brough is more than capable of organising. He spends a lot of time barking out instructions to his team mates. He does most of the organising for Hudds.

Correct. Burrow should go, Sinfield shouldn't. Close the thread, I'm right, no need for any more debate.

Good players, even very good players like Burrow can still have flaws.

Picking Burrow as your organising half makes about as much sense as pick Watkins as your ball playing second-rower.

Yeah that must be it, you've watched Sinfield more closely than Leeds fans who see him every week







You're either in denial or Stevie Wonder if you don't notice Sinfield being the key organiser at Leeds.

Look at the post above mine, you need to learn context

But he doesn't does he, he is wildly inconsistent .

Yes he does, and no he isn't, to put it succinctly.

So what has he consistently lead his team to?

As someone else has said; team achievements are not a fantastic measure of one individual's performance.

But team achievements maybe reflect the organiser and leader if that team.

If not that, what about individual awards, you know like golden boots, Harry Sunderland awards, lance todd trophys etc ??

Yet most people have already decided that if England do lose in the World Cup it will be solely down to the selection of Sinfield at 6.

If our pack doesnt get on top it doesnt matter who we have in the halves because the Aussies will run riot over us as they have done on countless occasions in the past.

Thankfuly it seems our pack this time really will be a match for the aussies.Lets hope it lives up to the hype.We have talked it up before as being better but how many time in the last decade have we been dominated in big games and the likes of Sinfield and Long etc.. had to play on the back foot? How many times can you think of us really winning the forwards battle and Sinfield having a chance to control a game? he has almost always played behind a beaten England pack in the big games yet in the few he hasnt, like the four nations game against NZ in 2011 he ran the show.

You are quite right though that should England get bossed in a semi or a final its already pre-determined by many that Sinfield will be the scapegoat.

Partly. I'd put it out there that Sinfield's leadership and organisation wouldn't quite be enough to take Hemel Stags to the Challenge Cup Final... Team achievements rely on a lot more than the input of one player. Brough won the Albert Goldthorpe medal in 2008 playing for a mid-table Wakefield side btw.

FWIW I would go with Brough and Sinfield as the HB pairing, so I'm not disputing that Sinfield is a very good organiser or player at all.