the northern union spawned rugby league

the RFU had nothing to do with it.

That's precisely what myself and Wellsy argued.

It depends on what you mean by "claiming their history". AFAIK the Huddersfield RU team claimed to have won the Yorkshire cup before they had actually been founded when it was the team that became Huddersfield Giants that won those cups. This is clearly absurd.

If you mean that the RFU can't claim that RU was ever a major spectator sport in Yorkshire and Lancashire or such-and-such a player was a RU international (pre 1895) then I'm inclined to disagree.

You're changing your argument now.

Before, you were arguing that rugby union did not spawn rugby league:

So are you admitting now that you got this wrong?

nope.

northern (rugby) union spawned RL.

the RFU had nothing to do with it.

just so you dont get confused.

ive said all along the NU played rugby.

Absolute boll*cks of the highest order. If a club plays a sport under a governing body's rules, why can't that governing body claim the history of a club that played the sport it governed?! It's absurd!


In what way did they help develop rugby union apart from participating? They had no influence, which was pretty much why they left in the first place. You can't just take history. History stays where it always was, otherwise it isn't history it's a lie!

When did rugby league begin in Bradford? Can we not claim the history of Bradford PA in our sport because they left us to go play football?

You've said all along that league didn't come from union. That is the point being argued. You can say anything you like about the history of rugby, the RFU, when rugby league became a new sport, etc. But the fact is that YOU argued that rugby union did not spawn rugby league. Not the RFU. The RFU wasn't mentioned. They're a governing body. YOU said that rugby union (the sport) didn't spawn rugby league.

And you've said that they played "rugby", but you haven't acknowledged that it was rugby union until the last few posts. I thought I may have misread your posts (you know, you Aussies referring to union as "rugby"icon_wink.gif, but then realised you had been arguing that "union" has no right to the "rugby" game on its own. So you haven't been arguing all along that they played rugby union. Just "rugby". So again, changing your argument.

Here's a few quotes to help jog your memory:





...A load more quotes repeating the same thing...

And then finally, the quote that made the massive U-turn:


So you'd been arguing that we didn't play rugby union all this time (just "the game of rugby", which wasn't rugby union because there wasn't a rugby league?) and then finally came out with the fact that when we left we were still playing rugby union (i.e. RU for northern clubs = Northern Union).

Answer this question:

Did the sport of rugby league come from the sport of rugby union? Not "did the governing body NRFU come from the RFU?" as that is a totally different question.

Did the sport of rugby league come from the sport of rugby union? Yes or No?

for the 100th time, RL did not come from rugby union (as controlled by the RFU).

RL came from the northern (rugby) union, a game of union which was administered by a northern governing body, thats where we came from.

unless you think the original rugby game is an invention of the RFU - clearly wronr - then RL has its own independant genesis.

the game of RL has its roots before the RFU to the game of rugby. both sports originated from the original rugby game and neither can claim ownership of this history

maybe if you read some books on this topic it would help

this is my last response at repeating myself.

So none of these lads had ever seen the RFU's rule book up until 1895 when the new Northern Union came into being......

Dally the RFU's rules were drawn up in 1871 - 24 years previously. You are insane if you think that people in the north were not using those rules.



Both Wellsy and I have already mentioned Rugby school rules.



That's probably just as well.

sorry to get back in but rugby schools rules werent invented by the RFU.

they later codified them but those rules were in place before hand.

northern clubs played their part in the development and playing of the game before the RFU came around

the northern union can trace its roots back to rugby school. so can the RFU.

sorry to dissappoint you but the RFU get zero credit

rugby was not invented by the RFU, they adopted it from earlier games, games which northern clubs which are older than the RFU played

to simplify : NORTHERN (rugby) UNION. no new sport was set up in 1895, it was a continuationn of the old game

i am now done

the NU split from the RFU,is that right ?.
because if its wrong the rfl web site needs changing.

People have mentioned having 2 leagues in this country for super league maybe an east and west split but I don't think it would work.... a better split for me would be have a super league 1 and super league 2.

Wigan
Leeds
Saints
Bradford
Wire
Hull FC
Hull KR
Widnes
Catalans
Hudds

Cas
Wakey
Crusaders
Quins
Salford
Leigh
Barrow
Fax
Featherstone
Toulouse

Much higher quality in the top league, more close games. Second tier would be a lot stronger than it is now and would get alot more money from the amount of sky games they would get.

This would make the franchising system more progressive.

Perhaps teams could move between the two "super leagues", depending upon their position in the table at the end of the season?

as marty Mcfly might say.
i dont think you folks are ready for that yet.
but your kids are going to love it.

English not your strong point? How did you get 3 degrees if you cannot answer a simple question?

The RFU was not mentioned. In fact, they were specifically taken out of the question to stop you wriggling off the hook. The question again:


You can't admit when you're wrong, even when it's put right in front of you that you are. In your millions of explanations to try and wriggle off the hook, you've already admitted it anyway and are now trying to change the argument so it doesn't really matter anyway. Just give yourself a slight bit of credibility and admit it directly.


Nope, I don't think the RFU invented the original game. Again, not the point being argued.
But if you think RL has it's completely own independent genesis, you are a delusional idiot who is blinded by his own false sense of pride.

Do you REALLY believe that between the time that the RFU was formed and the time the Northern Union broke away the rules of the original Rugby rules football didn't change? The game evolved under the RFU/IRFB, then we broke away and (as you have said) we played the same game in the NRFU.

Therefore, you have already said that we played rugby union. Rugby union was the creation of the RFU, who evolved the rules of the original Rugby school rules of football into the game it became in 1895, which we continued in our own governing body and then evolved into Rugby League. You cannot take out the middle parts to suit you. That is how it happened.


That's just idiotic. Of course they can. Both can, should and do claim ownership of this history. And both are right to. It was part of the history of the development of their game. You can go even further back and they can still claim that history, because it is the part of their history. No-one can independently claim that history (which is apparently what you are arguing), but that doesn't mean they both can't. You can go back as far as when people where kicking around skulls and that's part of the history of how each of rugby union, rugby league and association football came to be as they are the earlier forms of "football", which we claim as our history.


Just because you read books doesn't make you smart.

Yes, and they also later adapted them over the 24 years between when the RFU was formed and the NRFU broke away, thus making it a different game to the one played at Rugby school, and thus making it rugby union (which later saw a new governing body formed and spawn into rugby league). That's how it happened. You've already said, you just won't admit that you said it.


You've already said this, but still haven't shown how they contributed to the development of the game (other than they played it)...


Nobody has claimed otherwise.


Doesn't disappoint anyone. Especially me. Can't stand them, but doesn't mean we didn't come from them. They can't take credit for us, but it doesn't mean we didn't come from them.


Rugby union was the invention of the RFU. "Rugby" wasn't ever a sport, it's a school. A school where they played their own version of football. That version of football eventually became rugby union, and then spawned rugby league.


The old game being rugby union. Which is the point being made, and the point you keep avoiding even though you've already said we played rugby union before rugby league. Fascinating!


You were done ages ago. You just can't admit it. You've been rinsed. Again!

I like the Super League 2 Idea.

When it comes to stupid, I would suggest that you look at the following......

You started this thread with a link



2 posts later you said...


Short term memory loss or just plain stupid?

Then....and this is may favourite


....still makes me smile that...shows you up to be truly stupid....
But just in case we weren't convinced....


...ah, so because it wasn't seen in Australia before it was stolen directly from American football rather than say, er....Union...or even UK League?
American football....FFS........

Then you go on to say that League didn't have its origins in Union......but accept that after the split, both "codes" were pretty much played with Union rules but the Northern Union
changed their game over a period of time to what we now call league......I think the fact that they were called the Northern UNION would have given you a hint as to the origin of the game...


at no point did I mention the RFU....you were wrong, you knew you were wrong, but like a spoilt child, you kept on denying everything...
Interesting post here....


Is this the same RFU that didn't exist? You keep digging though, even though many others have proved you to be wrong on all points.....

here's something else I didn't say but you threw into the debate to try and cover your tracks....
...........

and best of all.......after 7 pages of total rubbish from you....you come up with
...funniest post....but you still continue...

Where did I mention the RFU?????
sTOP!! Seriously, stop now......

....how did a debate about the bomb/up'n'under get to this.......and what's with the fixation on the RFU......
is there something you're not telling us?


This quote sums you up dally messenger......

Yeah Dally. You're looking a dill. Sometimes it's best to just go close you mouth and go back into a corner.

No......I'm enjoying it too much

Loving the quote that sums it up



So, according to dally:

The bomb comes from an American football forward pass...
Rugby league doesn't come from rugby union...
The RFU have no part in the history of rugby league...

And he's telling other people that they're stupid?

Hey, dally messenger....you'd better write to the RFL.....according to their site:

"Their motivation was the desire to offer fair compensation to their players for the time off work that was required by playing in Saturday matches. That was a practice outlawed at the time by the then Rugby Football Union "

Here...you like URL's.. [urlhttp://www.therfl.co.uk/history_of_the_sport[/url

Maybe there should be a separate thread on these points? People may not have the proper input on here with this being nothing to do with the original thread. Perhaps more people would like to know that rugby union had nothing to do with the history of how our sport came to be, or that the bomb kick came from an American football forward pass?

dm....before you try to post another clever reply, check [url=http://www.justinggoogleit.com/THIS WEBSITE[/url...it may help