So. We've got an undemocratic system in place in the UK that has many flaws & doesn't function like we would want it to.

OK, I'll tell you what, let's keep that in place, but on top of that why don't we build another undemocratic system that has many flaws & doesn't function like we would want it to & have that as a further level of government.

Could this be some sort of test for madness?

I like to read the Daily Mail.

I prefer British food to any other.

I think French wine like all things French is over rated.

Love thy neighbour never offended me and still doesn't.

I preferred my job when the workplace was nearly all male.

I don't agree with gay marriage.

I don't trust the Germans.

I detest men who cry in public unless it's due to the loss of a loved one rather than being knocked out of a cooking contest.

Missing out on a holiday becuse you slipped at work and broke your arm is is not devastating, being told you have Cancer and weeks to live is.

I prefer to holiday in the UK because everyone speaks the lingo.........

In the eyes of the Guardian reading musli chugging liberal elitist I'm a troglodite, GREAT I AM.

I AM HOWEVER NOT OFFENDED BY ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME - THAT IS THEIR RIGHT.

Now I've never been afraid to have and express these opinions despite the near facist lefties who continually bully people not to.

Problem is that a huge number of people in this country seem to varying degrees feel the same - the plebs found their voice on the 23rd and oh boy the bullies can't cope with that can they. Farge want's it to be called Independance day, I'd go further I'd call it liberation day.

I've heard one or two politician claiming that this reforendum has been devisive and that the tone has become far worse. What they actually mean is that they can no longer lord it over people with vague threats of branding people as a "ist" or "phobic" every time they dare expree thier thoughts. Now the plebs talk back and they just can't bare that. Some of the windbags on here are in for a rude awakening in the next few month because once again Britain is at least free as a place where you can have an opinion - god that will annoy them.

Despite being an in not an out and knowingthe risks (yep even a pleb can spot them) I can't help thinking whatever happens it's been worth seeing the self titled "educated working class" and "simpering middle class" being slapped back down by there own people. The rather dim Harrisons goes on about the Tory elite ripping us off yet misses the real issue with staggering ineptitude. The Tories arn't our real enemy, we know what scumbags many of them are - but they are not hiding anything so it's easy to deal with. It's your champagne socialist who are the real enemy of the working man with their rock star mates, three houses and cushy EU jobs lined up for their retirement nest egg (oh wait) - is that self interest I here.



God this is fun, but my rant must stop and I don't suppose it will make any difference - but before I go one point - the much maligned Boris Johnson went to Oxford on merit and according to all his contempories he was the brightest star of his generationwith an IQ and a bredth of knowledge off the scale - unlike Cameron and many a Labour MP who were there at the time. Yet people on here and elsewhere who's intellects are not even close to that of old blondies love to tell us that the mans an idiot, a clown - tells you all you need to know about their arrogance and conciet as not one of those keyboard warriors on here would last five munutes with old Boris, he'd wipe the floor with them, but hey I'm a pleb along with half the electorate and Boris and co are all idiots so what do I know.

I like to read the Daily Express for the McKinstry articles.

I prefer British, Italian and Indian Food.

Up to now I have worked in Spain, Belgium, Romania, France, Germany, Switzerland and Hungary and think for hospitality and honesty the best order is Hungary, Spain, Switzerland, Romania, Belgium, France and Germany.

The last 15 years have been working for the Ministry of Defence in combat systems and the top brass think the EU (Brussels) live in some kind of Alice in Wonderland.

Holidays were Italy and the South of France but now settling for the UK being much safer.

My original thoughts was to REMAIN then I did an intensive study on the workings of the EU, in the meantime Project Fear and Blackmail Threats came to the surface, this raised the value of Liberty and Freedom..............So I voted LEAVE.

Explains a lot.

They may have a point, and lots of people can have a different point of view. Doesn't necessarily mean it's right, nor whether it's wrong. When the train was invented a point made by lots of people was you would suffocate at speed, others suggested otherwise. Just make sure the point is about the subject not the individual.

A sexist xenophobic homophobe, and you're proud of it.

You're an embarrassment.

Didnt Boris Johnson once failn an IQ test? Oh yes he did. Hes an idiot. May aswell task my 2 year old daughter to run the country

As my physio said earlier "I didnt vote but ive noticed all the educated people voted remain whilst all the chavs voted leave"

Regards

King James

Even Boris is aware 'as well' is two words and not one. I won't bother pulling the rest of your badly worded post to bits.

I also wish your physio well.

Regards,

WT.

Ok Mr Haggerty, let's analyse your figures in a bit more detail than your favourable isolated instances.

Many British companies had 20-30% wiped off their value.
Quite possibly true, but you should know (

) that isolated companies is no way to analyse an index. The FTSE 100 finished down on the day 1.4% (or 2.0% up over the week). That sounds like a pretty unremarkable day to me. The FTSE 250 closed 6.3% down on the day (or 2.0% down over the week). A little more volatile, but its finishing price was 0.3% up on that of a week & 1 day previous.
Whatever your views, these figures are hardly the armageddon & financial meltdown ALL REMAINER "EXPERTS"were forecasting.
Nice try at "doom & gloom", but must do better. I appreciate that it is just one 24 hour period immediately after the referendum & we don't yet know what next week will bring, but your figures were deliberately chosen to mislead people into believing something that did not happen.
Have just checked; the "many British companies" amount to 8:
1 bank
1 insurance company
1 airline
1 TV company
4 building companies



No I didn't. I voted to leave the EU based upon what I knew. But thanks for telling me what was going through my mind at the time.



How didn't we? What on earth has happened since Friday morning that justifies this inane conclusion. Name me one Brexiter who DIDN'T say there would be a period of uncertainty, affecting stock & currency markets, immediately after a Leave vote.



I'm glad we don't fight in trenches anymore, cos I sure as hell wouldn't want you beside me.

"I'm glad we don't fight in trenches anymore, cos I sure as hell wouldn't want you beside me." quote "son of headingley"

the not fighting in trenches was quite possibly due to a closer relationship with the rest of Europe?

Jeez, your physio gets about doesn't he? How did he manage to speak to all those 30-odd million voters?

Oh OK, we're back to Cameron's WW3. By that logic we should have been at war with the USA, China etc etc etc over the past few decades.

Any of you clowns heard of NATO?

NATO Is that where we we follow America into any war that it wants. Libya, Iraq Afghanistan.

Now we are out of Europe we will be more than ever Americas 51st state.



Trump telling us what to do. Now that would be funny.

Quote ="Durham Giant"NATO Is that where we we follow America into any war that it wants. Libya, Iraq Afghanistan. Now we are out of Europe we will be more than ever Americas 51st state. Trump telling us what to do. Now that would be funny.'" The USA was already our single largest trading partner, so I hardly think so. We only export 44% of our total goods and services to the EU excluding 2% which is the Rotterdam effect, 4% of the total of EU exported goods actually go directly to non-EU countries via the Netherlands. From ONS: www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationala ... de/apr2016 Since our common market entry we've seen a continual downturn in our exports and a huge increase in imports from the EU. Only this April there was yet another widening in the deficit with the EU with a fall of 10% in the last 15 years of export to the EU. ONS data shows that UK exports have grown at an average rate of 8.7% in nominal terms over the last four decades (1974 -2014), however the level of UK exports as a proportion of world exports has been gradually declining. World Bank data shows that the UK’s share fell from 7.3% in 1970 to 3.6% in 2014, indicative of slower UK export growth relative to a number of other global economies such as China, Germany and the USA. This decline marks a halving in the UK’s share of world trade since the 1970s. In 1970, the UK held the 3rd highest export share among the G7 economies and China but has since alternated between 3rd, 4th and 5th positions

Quote ="Durham Giant"NATO Is that where we we follow America into any war that it wants. Libya, Iraq Afghanistan. Now we are out of Europe we will be more than ever Americas 51st state. Trump telling us what to do. Now that would be funny.'" The USA was already our single largest trading partner, so I hardly think so. We only export 44% of our total goods and services to the EU excluding 2% which is the Rotterdam effect, 4% of the total of EU exported goods actually go directly to non-EU countries via the Netherlands. From ONS: www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationala ... de/apr2016 Since our common market entry we've seen a continual downturn in our exports and a huge increase in imports from the EU. Only this April there was yet another widening in the deficit with the EU with a fall of 10% in the last 15 years of export to the EU. ONS data shows that UK exports have grown at an average rate of 8.7% in nominal terms over the last four decades (1974 -2014), however the level of UK exports as a proportion of world exports has been gradually declining. World Bank data shows that the UK’s share fell from 7.3% in 1970 to 3.6% in 2014, indicative of slower UK export growth relative to a number of other global economies such as China, Germany and the USA. This decline marks a halving in the UK’s share of world trade since the 1970s. In 1970, the UK held the 3rd highest export share among the G7 economies and China but has since alternated between 3rd, 4th and 5th positions

Quote ="knockersbumpMKII"The USA was already our single largest trading partner, so I hardly think so. We only export 44% of our total goods and services to the EU excluding 2% which is the Rotterdam effect, 4% of the total of EU exported goods actually go directly to non-EU countries via the Netherlands. From ONS: www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationala ... de/apr2016 Since our common market entry we've seen a continual downturn in our exports and a huge increase in imports from the EU. Only this April there was yet another widening in the deficit with the EU with a fall of 10% in the last 15 years of export to the EU. ONS data shows that UK exports have grown at an average rate of 8.7% in nominal terms over the last four decades (1974 -2014), however the level of UK exports as a proportion of world exports has been gradually declining. World Bank data shows that the UK’s share fell from 7.3% in 1970 to 3.6% in 2014, indicative of slower UK export growth relative to a number of other global economies such as China, Germany and the USA. This decline marks a halving in the UK’s share of world trade since the 1970s. In 1970, the UK held the 3rd highest export share among the G7 economies and China but has since alternated between 3rd, 4th and 5th positions'" So is that a result of being in the EU or as a result of UK industry declining in its competitiveness and us actually manufacturing anything in volume. We have become a specialist manufacturer in a range of key industries. Where is our coal industry, ship building, steel, power, car industry. We have shifted to services mainly. And is any of this for your statistic our actual decline or the Asian and Chinese growth? That is a question not a critiscism.

Quote ="knockersbumpMKII"The USA was already our single largest trading partner, so I hardly think so. We only export 44% of our total goods and services to the EU excluding 2% which is the Rotterdam effect, 4% of the total of EU exported goods actually go directly to non-EU countries via the Netherlands. From ONS: www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationala ... de/apr2016 Since our common market entry we've seen a continual downturn in our exports and a huge increase in imports from the EU. Only this April there was yet another widening in the deficit with the EU with a fall of 10% in the last 15 years of export to the EU. ONS data shows that UK exports have grown at an average rate of 8.7% in nominal terms over the last four decades (1974 -2014), however the level of UK exports as a proportion of world exports has been gradually declining. World Bank data shows that the UK’s share fell from 7.3% in 1970 to 3.6% in 2014, indicative of slower UK export growth relative to a number of other global economies such as China, Germany and the USA. This decline marks a halving in the UK’s share of world trade since the 1970s. In 1970, the UK held the 3rd highest export share among the G7 economies and China but has since alternated between 3rd, 4th and 5th positions'" So is that a result of being in the EU or as a result of UK industry declining in its competitiveness and us actually manufacturing anything in volume. We have become a specialist manufacturer in a range of key industries. Where is our coal industry, ship building, steel, power, car industry. We have shifted to services mainly. And is any of this for your statistic our actual decline or the Asian and Chinese growth? That is a question not a critiscism.

I don't know where you get your figures from, but they're inaccurate.

The FTSE 100 fell 200 points, or 3.15% on Friday. (source: [urlhttp://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-markets/stocks/indices/summary/summary-indices.html?index=UKX[/url)

In the initial panic, it was down 8% - it's largest single fall since the 2008 banking crisis. This was what forced the Bank of England to announce it's emergency fund of £250bn which it would use to stabilise the market. The FTSE 100 isn't actually the best indicator of the UK economy, because quite a few of its companies are either not actually British, but are merely listed here., or are multinationals who do most of their business in overseas currencies, and so their share price actually benefitted from the record devaluation of the pound which also happened on Friday. Nevertheless, for companies listed on the FTSE 100 who do most of their business in the UK, or are inextricably linked with our financial system, it was a terrible day. Housebuilders posted 20-30% losses, as their business is a bellweather of the UK domestic economy. British banks and insurance companies also suffered double-digit losses. Defensive stocks rose, notably the Gold and Silver producers Randgold and Fresnillo, and also safe multinationals with non-UK income streams. (Source: [urlhttp://www.hl.co.uk/shares/stock-market-summary/ftse-100/[/url )

The FTSE 250 is a far more "British" index, and as such is much more responsive to British concerns, as it has fewer global players. That recorded a fall of 7.19%, its worst daily fall ever. Once again, firms focused on property and financials led the way down (source [urlhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/24/ftse-250-suffers-biggest-points-drop-in-history-as-property-stoc/[/url)

The reason, by the way, that the picture over the week wasn't as bad as it might have been, is that the market had risen dramatically from Monday to Wednesday because markets believed Remain was going to win after a series of polls suggested Leave had peaked. On Friday, you saw those optimistic gains wiped out.

You can play this down if you like, but yesterday was carnage on the markets, with four times normal volume and required an intervention by the Bank of England to steady the ship. Markets are, of course, short-termist, and in the days of HFT, very volatile. By the end of next week, we will have a better idea of the speed and direction of any longer-term movements. You'd need to be a serious contrarian to go long on these indices at present.

Nobody predicted that the economy would return to barter within 24 hours. What was predicted was that the financial markets would fall dramatically immediately after a Leave vote. They did. It was also predicted that the pound would tank. It did. The current expectation is that firms will continue to lose value more slowly as financial firms wait to see whether a stay of execution, or a way to avoid this disaster can be found. The key will be Article 50 being invoked. If it is, markets will plummet again. Until then, they'll resemble a flock of starling, darting all over the place according to whichever rumour sweeps the City on a daily basis.

The damage inflicted by Brexit won't all take place within a day, or a week. That's crazy talk. The damage will be long-term, as firms pull out of the UK, jobs go, Big Finance relocates to Frankfurt, EU structural funds disappear from our deprived regions, prices rise in shops because the falling pound means all our imports are more expensive, while house prices fall, leaving owners in negative equity. The real biggie will be when the cost of borrowing goes up, forcing up everyone's mortgage and loan payments. The BofE will do everything to try and avoid that, because we're so indebted that when that happens, we really are all screwed, but already Ratings agencies have reduced UK's rating, and that's the first step to borrowing on our massive debt becoming more expensive. Just because this hasn't happened in the one trading day since the referendum doesn't mean you're home and hosed. We're going to have a recession. Even bloody Farage admits it. he doesn't care, of course, because he's loaded and it won't affect him. But a lot of people currently thinking they've "stuck it to the elite" are going to get burned.

I don't know why I'm bothering to explain this. You don't care. Nobody currently chanting "take our country back" gives even the slightest stuff about this, because it's boring, and complicated, and real. Just like none of them seem to be concerned that within the last 48 hours, Farage has disowned the spurious NHS funding lie, Johnson has blustered about seeing no need for rapid movement towards Brexit (he's bricking himself because he didn't think they'd win, and he didn't want them to), and Hannan has already announced that there's no plans to reduce immigration either from the EU or anyone else, because that was all a lie too.

Still. Keep throwing those ad homs out. I'm sure they make you feel better.

I think you are only looking at the home entity instead of the whole EU market place, the UK has a very strong economy and this was reflected in the stock fall behaviour just before close of play.

Italy -12.5%
Spain -12.0%
France -8.0%
Germany -6.8%
.
.
UK -2.8%


It was a pretty good and impressive response from the BoE to show a £250 billion brake guarantee to gain back ground at the end of the trading day.
EU (Brussels) are panicking and want to avoid any potential fragmentation, the UK want to calm things down let markets realign and start negotiations without causing "spikes" in the world markets. Junker and his commissioners seem to be agitating the situation in the hope that they can reduce damage limitation.
Italy, Spain, France, Germany etc will still in there own interest want to trade with us but EU (Brussels) will obviously want to apply penalties be it short or long term we don't no.......because in the Brussels Cocoon no one leaves the EU.

Yes it does. It shows what arrogant assumptions people like you chose to make because you think you're smarter than the rest of us. Your so indoctrinated by neo-liberal nonesense that all you can do is trot out the same tired old cliches. However that's all over now and all you've done is show how lacking you are in any original thought.

Strange reaction as I recall it was the outs who were suggesting Europe would decend into conflict if we left - thus it's a fair point. Funny how people forget what they said a week ago.

As it happens the reason Europe has remained at peace is down to the control exerted by that other great hate figigure of the Liberal elite - the good old US of A.

The world nor human nature ever really changes and although personally I don't see Europe decending into a hundred year war if push came to shove I'd certainly want to be in the UK/US trench and not the French or German wrong.

I don't care what brand of phobic I'm called, the British are not and never have been continentals - we look west, we've always looked left and because of that we have a whole raft of nation to whom we have much more in common. Canada, Australia and NZ and to a lesser extent the USA and even India. The wourld didn't end on thursday the chairs simply shifted a bit.

Didn't we "make Britain great" by managing to colonise half of the world, enslaving so many, forcing our laws on them and our language? Now most of this generation just want us to stay on our little island with our fellow white people. Ironic really.

That is correct, the big players are USA, UK and you have to include the French the relationship of these three are massive but quite a lot of the time the USA is the puppeteer.

Can you imagine an EU Army based on rules and regulations giving the enemy human rights during conflict, I would imagine a future EU army would be used more for civil unrest amongst member states such as Greece, Spain and a future Turkey perhaps.

Australia has been a stand alone country since, well, since England kicked us to the curb.
Turns out that when England stopped wanting our trade (so they could trade with the EU), we could get a better price from Asia anyway.
If you've got good stuff to sell, someone will buy it these days - China or India probably.

Am I really.

Funny how the liberals amomogst us remain the ultimate hypocrites.

In your world it's the ultimate sin to brand all Muslims as radical, all black people as lazy etc etc. You can't call a gay man a puff and rightly so, though IMO he's a homosexual not "gay" which is a mis appropriation of a word.

Yet anyone who doesn't agree with you is instantly labeled and lumped together as a sexist xenophobic homophobe - yet I'm sure you don't see the irony.

I'm guessing your under 40 which means you have probably been indoctrinated within an educational system that has been peddling a neo-liberal agenda for years, so I do understand why you can't think for yourself and instead just trot out a meaningles tirade of stock anwers - I feel your pain.

So I'm sexist for prefering my job when it was just the lads and IMO a lot more fun - well sorry but I did it was so much easier then and I just preferred it, do I have to lie to make you happy?. Yet as a manager I have taken on far more women than men because they are simply better qualified. You see the paradox here. I'm a true democrat, in that although I have my own feelings and my own opinions I also follow the protocols laid down by the electorate. Most people obviously do not share my views and thus I follow what the majority has decided - that is how it works and it's the bit about democracy and true speech that Liberals never ever get.

To call someone Xenophobia is the last refuge of a scoundral and is the lowest opinion anyone can hold before falling right off the stupid chart. So it's xenophobic to prefer British food, not like French wine, prefer to holday in the UK because you like being able to speak your own language whilst on holiday and above all it's xenophobic not to trust a nation who since it's creation in the 19th century has had one stated aim - European domination - check your history books you naive fool. Any person from any other nation reading what I have written and you defining it as xenophobic would have frankly shat thier pants by now laughing at you. I suggest you leave your tiny little circle of like minded facebook friends and live and work in the real world. I've worked and lived abroad but more importantly worked with many foriegners (replace this with whatever PC abjective applies) both here and in there native lands and they will tell you that English people just don't know how lucky they are. Has it ever crossed your feeble mind why the UK is the place they all want to? Because your a hypocrite it can't be for the benefits can it, far to Daily Mail - so why then. It's because it's Britain an despite it's flaws is a fantastic country. They certainly wouldn't be the least bit offended by an Englishman's pride in his food and his language or begrudge him his holday in Cornwall or a distrust of the Germans - far from it because here they know that they to can say exactly what they think whether it be popular or not. Only a true facist like you would do that.

I'm not homophobic, how do you even know I'm not a homosexual - yet again another huge assumption. The same assumption that assumes all homosexuals believe in gay marriage. Another example of hypocricy on your part, if I assumed all gay men as mincing spandex wearing sexual predators I'd be shot to pieces but you assume all gay people are united as one in thier beliefs - they are not. Like a lot of straight people many gay people don't really believe in marriage as a concept end of. I'm the same on that one, despite being a Daily Mail don't assume I follow their agenda.

See the problem with neo-liberal facists like you is that your concept of democracy and free speech is beyond flawed, it's non-existant. In a true democracy you can't have any limits on freedom of speech - it's either eveyone however extreme has a chance to express themselves or no one does, there simply in no half way house. You're idea of free speech is that evryone can say anything they want but only if it matched your narrowly perscribed set of values, in other words you can say what you like so long as I agree with it - if you don't I will then resort to branding you a "sexist xenophobic homophobe" because I'm so lacking in intelligence I have no other argument and also I'm a shocking bully.

"sexist xenophobic homophobe" So am I proud, well if what I've said is what you condider to be "sexist xenophobic homophobe" then yes I am and as proud as punch.

Now cue standard liberal accusations in reply.

That would be the same Empire and nation that did more than most to establish the Rule of Law, Universal Sufferage and Parlimentary Democracy. The leagccy of the empire is mixed but rather like the empire of Rome it's achievements far outweigh it's failures in the eyes of most historians.

I love idiots like you who trot out this tired leftist rubbish.

Now you name me this lilly white nation or noble race of peole who don't have a sordid past or just a past IMO.

Is it the Germans - seriously.

The French - no slave empre there.

The US - seriously.

South Africa - the one left in utter turmoild by the ex-terrorist Nelson Mandella darling ofthe chattering classed - you know he's flawed when an absolute tool like Eddie Izzard worships him.

Or should we get to those countries that can really teach us a lesson regarding democracy and human rights past and present.

Who do you want, China, Russia or india - all countries where genocide is a national past time.

Grow up.

Short term yes because we will be in transition, long term we will be back in Global Markets. We could see a shift in some of our old and possible new manufacturing moving to the lower costs of the commonwealth as we reduce the pressure of immigration that is driving wages down.

We might decide to shift our nuclear generation renewal over to Japan instead of France but we can be pretty sure the EU will want a time committed trade agreement to stretch this out. Our Fishing Industry might benefit the most at the expense of Spain as we take back and extend some control of our fishing grounds. Similarly our military software which is the envy of the world which might open up trade to Canada, Suadi Arabia, Australia and New Zealand. Also one of our biggest assets is the City Finance we will lose some company headquarters in London this will effect investment but will they see a troubled EU as a risk we don't know.

The UK has great ethnic background contributing enormously so I don't know where your "fellow white people" is coming from in your mind set.