?

There is no contradiction in the two statements that I posted. I wrote first that Widnes has too paltry a fan base for Super League, but later I noted that they a strong enough fan base for the Championship.

so where does London and Toulouse fit in with your theory

League 1, clearly..

Apparently, the Toronto owner, David Argyle wants to buy Widnes's licence and start a club in Liverpool.

Let's not argue with him. He is a genius who loves The Beatles, as do I.

A surprisingly reasoned post for you , but where you are wrong is like Leigh , Widnes's stadium is geared up for SL , it doesn't work outside SL , on the numbers they will attract outside SL , they will struggle , and eventually crowds will dwindle

In effect it's better to have a dump like Wheldon Rd that makes you money rather than a modern stadium that doesn't

As I've just pointed out above , in their modern stadium their fan base doesn't work outside a licenced SL

Your best post yet !

Pity it's not feasible.

Agreed...

Do you think that if we "jettison" all of the smaller SL clubs into the Championship that the remaining 5/6 UK SL sides will develop enough players for themselves and your beloved expansion clubs ??

You bang on about clubs only having the support of a championship side but,, you dont seem to realise that playing in the championship means far fewer fans turn up.
It matters not how many sans clubs attract in SL, it becomes a whole new thing at the lower level.
Look at Bradford, Widnes, even London, all of whom have "lost" huge numbers of fans since dropping down a level.

IF London was any other ide, they would have been refused entry into the top flight, as would Toronto but, YOU cant wait and you actually believe that it will be good for the game ??



It would be great to have some Championship rugby on TV but the administrators of the game, plus Sky dont seem to think so.
You're even proposing New York being in SL and last time that I checked, there isnt a RL side in New York, just a proposal.



How many UK clubs would you like to disappear just to promote your dream and what happens to the domestic game as the number of pro and semi pro clubs reduces.

I am not proposing reducing the number of English clubs to 5/6

There are only 12 supportable clubs at the moment, of which 9 are UK/English:

[iWigan, St Helens, Warrington

Leeds, Hull FC, Hull KR, Castleford, Huddersfield

London

Catalans, Toulouse

Toronto, [/i

That should be the ideal Super League in 2020.

If some of New York, Montreal Boston and Philadelphia come on board in the future, that will be fantastic for the new TV contract in 2022.

Players to be recruited from Australia and New Zealand, including rugby union players who want to follow in the footsteps of Sonny Bill Williams at Toronto.

What criteria are you basing your "supportable clubs" on

Is it attendance, success, attendance, stadia, "potential" or just something in your own head.
And long term, are you increasing the league numbers to accommodate your new clubs ??

Plus, the more serious point that I raised, where are the players coming from for your North American SL sided as, it sure as hell isn't N. America.
Even Toronto in League One were too "scared" to play any local players, how the hell will any of your dream teams fill their roster with any local players or, do English players count as locals.

I love how you drop Salford and Wakefield from the comp, is this because both are doing better than Catalan and London









Could you also explain just how Catalan and Toulouse will share out the pool of French born RL players.
The Toulouse fans that we spoke to over there said that Catalan werent too happy about the prospect of an additional French side in the comp, which is quite understandable.

Please state by what criteria you have in mind with your utopian view of SL?

He's a money grabbing Rugby LEAGUE player, who is an average Union player in NZ terms....if he hadn't walked out on the dogs all those years ago, he'd hardly be worth a headline.
As for your imaginary Super League, what happens to London when David Hughes dies or walks away? What happens to Toronto when Argyle walks away or dies....do they still give away 5k tickets a week and sign has'been players who aren't good enough for the NRL or Super League? As for the "fantastic" new TV contract or teams in other US cities (where is eric BTW) is just your usual anti-English trolling......you're turning into a pound-shop LEAGUEFREAK bazza......

A couple of things here.

A Super League team falling out of the Super League doesn't mean that the local RL scene dies with it. When Castleford had their stint in the Championship, the people at Lock Lane didn't jack it in, and nor have the people running amateur clubs like Thornhill, Batley Boys and Dewsbury Moor, despite the nearest professional clubs likely never being close to Super League. People will still want to play RL as long as it is enjoyable to, and as long as it's supported.

Secondly, it is the "five or six" clubs that are producing the bulk of the talent anyway. You only have to look at the make-up of England teams over the last few tournaments to see that, in general, the vast majority of the players have come from three or four club academies. Of the 2013 England World Cup squad, 17 of the 24 players came from the academies Wigan, Leeds, Bradford and St Helens. In 2017, 14 of the 24-man squad came from those clubs.

So the argument that the less-fashionable clubs are "vital" for our playing talent doesn't really wash when it comes to elite players. The junior system at Wests Tigers has developed more England World Cup players than many of our heartland clubs. The last Cumbrians to play for England were Ade Gardner and Rob Purdham and clubs like Hull KR, Hull FC, Wakefield and Salford have made a contribution to the last two England WC squads that is no greater than that of that of Leigh, Featherstone, Batley, London Broncos and Melbourne Storm.

With respect, Castleford were relegated and gained promotion the following season, not really long enough to cause any long term damage to the local amateur scene or harm the aspirations of any local kids thinking that they could one day play for Castleford.
You're right to say that people still want to play as long as its enjoyable but, as you are well aware, it's not just about that and there is a whole pyramid of infrastructure around any pro team (apart from some of the expansion clubs) from first team, reserves, senior academy, junior academy, scholarships, help with local amateur clubs plus all of the community stuff etc, etc - it's not just about the 17 players on a Friday evening / Sunday afternoon.

More importantly, in Jean the troll's new regime, Catalan and Toulouse would be sharing the small pool of French talent and in a massive twist of irony, ALL of the N.American clubs would be using "Aussie" and UK players as there isn't any N.American players of SL standard and nor will there be for at least 10 years, maybe longer.

You mention the lack of Cumbrian players and how long ago it was since there were any in the England squad.
This may have something to do with there not having been a top flight Cumbrian side since Barrow ? in the late 80's / Early 90's ??

We need to protect and STRENGTHEN the game over here and not try to erase it.

You are of course right about where those world cup players came from and on the face of it your comment about juniors coming from just a few SL clubs is correct, primarily because they are in a position to throw far larger sums of money at their junior development and entice youngsters from "everywhere" into their junior set up.
Hampshire at Wakefield is just one example of this - played all his junior rugby in Wakefield but shows as a product of the Wigan academy ???

Fundamentally, Jean and some of the other expansionists would dismantle the domestic game and replace it with untried, untested clubs, without any significant structure, other than a pot of cash.
It's not practical for these clubs to have the full range of junior, academy and reserve sides, indeed, even London's academy was based in Yorkshire ??

I mat well be wrong and N.America could well be the saving of the game but, if it doesn't save it, it will put the game even further back and we really cant afford that can we ?

You do it your way and the death of pro RL will be down to people like you.

Myself and so many others can easily find something else to invest our time, effort and cash into and I'm sorry but why the feck should anyone work their nut's off to help "mercenary clubs" in N.America prosper to the detriment of OUR sport.
A game that was begun in West Yorkshire over 100 years ago but is being smashed into tiny pieces.

I've snipped the comment because whilst I agree that the right approach isn't to 'throw the baby out with the bathwater', I also don't agree that by following the route of expansion, we kill off the amateur scene that currently provides our talent pool. Yes a youngster at Lock Lane might one day dream of playing for Castleford, but is it really beyond the realms of possibility that the same youngster may be inspired by the opportunity to play professional sport in one of Australia's or America's world cities? If, and it is a big IF, we do end up with strong professional teams in London, Toronto, New York and Boston, are you suggesting that those opportunities wouldn't inspire young people?

We have an issue with falling participation in this country and, at the same time, the pressures of our aging population are most acutely felt in the types of towns where RL is generally played (young people and young families will increasingly gravitate towards the cities). This isn't a coincidence. The sport needs to redress that trend and personally, I would argue that insisting that we simply need to keep focusing out efforts on where that have been focused for the past 100+ years probably isn't the way to do that.

Your last para sums up the core issue for me and explains why this sport has struggled for so long to get the attention and prosperity that I would argue it deserves. We can't keep thinking that this is "OUR sport". It is "A sport", and it is a sport that used to be open to new ideas and new thinking. We can't keep going on with this "local shop for local people" attitude. There was a piece [url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-league/2019/02/23/toronto-wolfpack-eyeing-world-domination-first-leigh-centurions/in The Telegaph[/url this weekend about Toronto, and about how 42% of their casual ticket buyers were 'millenials' and 40% were females. How many other clubs in RL land are talking to the consumers of the future so effectively?

Woeful Widnes have raised over £50,000 in just 24 hours.

well done but can I ask how will it help the club as Bradford put the same effort in to have it all pocketed and still fall in to receivership

They’ll probably raise similar today and at a fund raising event tonight. It’s inportant to note that if the club is liquidated, all donations will be given up.

A consortium a businessmen are close we hope to taking over the club and securing our future financially.

The money raised by the fans I should say will hopefully be used at a later stage but will probably directly go towards and helping out the wage bill.

We have a monthly subscription called VIQI. Since Saturday, an additional 800 new members have signed up pledging £10/£15 a month, this alone will generate a further £96,000-£144,000 Which will all go directly to the club as and when VIQI feel it’s suitable to release the funds.

We’re down but never out, never will be in Widnes.

Somebody came forward and donated £10,000 yesterday to the club on top of the £50,000. This is far from a begging post but the response from the rugby league community, not just in Widnes, has been unbelievable. If you’d like to donate or help in any way, this is the link. https://www.gofundme.com/keep-the-vikin ... 0223874435

Somebody came forward and donated £10,000 yesterday to the club on top of the £50,000. This is far from a begging post but the response from the rugby league community, not just in Widnes, has been unbelievable. If you’d like to donate or help in any way, this is the link. https://www.gofundme.com/keep-the-vikin ... 0223874435

I will not be donating a penny, charity starts at home.

Well yeah. I really want to see Widnes come through the other side, but Bradford's history points to any funds being raised at this stage being swallowed up and being of no long-term help. I totally understand why Widnes fan's first response is to dip into their pockets because they love their club, but I'd advise caution.

To just clarify, all donations are being ring fenced so if we are liquidated and the consortium doesn’t go ahead this week, the donations will be given back.
The donations aren’t directly going towards the club itself straight away.
It’s set up by a fan.