Quote ="PopTart"I'm not Greenwood's biggest fan but he writes a good piece about Burgess in the Telegraph. www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... osper.html'" It's an excellent piece, full of little nuances that the "fan" might not necessarily pick up on about how to read the game, time runs differently etc. Course, the first thing George Riley has done is slag it off as being patronising. Nothing like League fans in the media reinforcing the chippy northerner stereotype.

Quote ="PopTart"I'm not Greenwood's biggest fan but he writes a good piece about Burgess in the Telegraph. www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... osper.html'" It's an excellent piece, full of little nuances that the "fan" might not necessarily pick up on about how to read the game, time runs differently etc. Course, the first thing George Riley has done is slag it off as being patronising. Nothing like League fans in the media reinforcing the chippy northerner stereotype.

riley says about greenwood '..a guy who clearly rates himself'. is that the guy who has a world cup winners medal? beats a guy who sits in a room in salford talking out loud. Good to see Jon Wilkin put Riley right, he's a class act on and off the pitch.

No it's not. It's patronising guff. Symptomatic of the stuff that has to be written by ex RU internationals to justify their contract with a broadsheet to write about 'rugby'. Surprised people have been taken in. Just because public school educated sportsmen can write well doesn't mean it's worth reading. It's just a case of 'look at at me, I won a world cup medal playing Union and watch the odd Super League match on TV - so I know all here is to know... blah,blah'. Doubt Sam Burgess will have the time or inclination to read it even if he knows it exists. As Mike Ford has said, they know not to try and change Sam and I guess he has now learned 95% of what he needs to know about playing Union through training with and talking to his new team mates and coaches. The other 5% will come with experience. Nothing for Greenwood to add, thanks a lot.

burgess named on the bench against montpellier tonight

“Dear Sam”
Did you know I attended a private school in Cumbria? I feel like we are kindred spirits.

“Backs Moves – Keep It Simple.”
You are a leaguie. You cannot possibly comprehend the massive hand-signalled complexity of our union backline moves. And like young Anakin Skywalker facing the Jedi Council, you are too old to learn.

“There are times when going to floor and recycling is just as effective. England have conceded numerous tries from turnovers in the last 12 months. A poor Billy Twelvetrees offload in Dunedin cost us the second Test in New Zealand.”
A chap that is not you playing for a team that you don’t play for made an error I noticed (we were all watching!) against a better team six months ago. I hereby declare you likely to make the same mistakes – perhaps worse, as you don’t have as good a name as “Twelvetrees”, who may be the best in the business.

“You are bright enough already, without ever playing a full game of union to know the risky pass from the percentage pass.”
In case I’m not being clear, I am saying you are not bright enough to do this. You need more time with George Ford – the best in the business.

“The back row. They are your enemy. From the back of scrums, from the tail of lineouts, they have their crosshairs pinned on you. You are public enemy number one to any team you play against. Do not be shy. If you are, they will eat you for breakfast.”
I am hereby questioning your toughness and aggression – as I mentioned, I have never watched the NRL before.

“Anyway Sam, that is enough to be getting on with for now.”
You are a leaguie after all, and from you Wikipedia page, it doesn’t even appear as it you went to a public school! Just the 8 areas and 25 tips today. I will annoy in a monthly article just like this one detailing every error I notice (that we were all watching!) and every memory of players I played with 15 years ago. You will hugely appreciate it!

“As an old fella who loves this game, let me say welcome to rugby union young man –”
Let me patronise one last time, you lump of Dewsbury coal.

'Dennis Betts bent my legs backward and tried to take my head home as a tea cosy'

Not to mention I was nowhere near fit or athletic enough to contend with the Rugby League Juniors I was playing against. I wasn't nearly tough enough nor did I have the aerobic capacity to allow me to stay involved beyond the first 10 minutes. The other players didn't like the fact that I couldn't throw them the ball without it bouncing at least once before reaching them and they didn't play fair because they wouldn't run straight lines instead they ran at funny angles. I did put one fabulous kick down field however the four unmarked players outside me didn't look too enamoured by it, all the worse was that the opposition full back refused to kick it back and ran the length of the field to score a try instead.

Any way Sam,
You've a lot to learn but you're a trier and will do OK if you just stick to the basics that you're capable of, head down, ar$e up and grind it out a yard at a time.

Cheerio

Will Greenwood

Spot on, patronising doesn't even cover it..

and Galliant, I admired Greenwood, one the best centres England RU had in that era but clearly knows jack shat if he thinks Robinson turned into one of the best out of hand kickers in the world..he was bloody bang average, even he would admit that. he stuck to what he knew & what he was top drawer at, running and beating people.

Oh? You've outed me apparently....lol.

Torbeck's post came from here - the entire thing's worth a read.....Will Greenwood had some back and forth on Twitter about it. www.guyjest.com/interpret-will-g ... m-burgess/

Torbeck's post came from here - the entire thing's worth a read.....Will Greenwood had some back and forth on Twitter about it. www.guyjest.com/interpret-will-g ... m-burgess/

What you apparently missed was that my post was a reply or a retaliation to the post I quoted.

Big Sam is playing again in Montpellier tonight. Bath winning 30-0 on 63 minutes.

Another messy, torrid, slow affair, currently being dominated by idiotic props slowing down the scrum, and terrible handling. One decent try so far. Yes, before anyone points it out, I know it's raining and muddy.

Sam hasn't had the ball yet, but is throwing his weight around to good effect, although he's aiming a little high with his tackles, in fact they've just pulled play back a ridiculous amount to penalise a challenge he made last Tuesday.

*Edit* - finally got the ball in hand on 72 mins, kept his legs pumping, hard to put down and was looking for non-existent support again. He's even made a kick! I counted 3 tackles, 1 run, 1 kick and 1 clean-out.

Must have a little man-crush on Sam Burgess to have sat through that.

That's two games of Union now and Sam has looked happy playing in both of them.

Moonies need to quit whining and just let go.

There are members of the Family Federation for World Peace and Unification on here?

A dire kick-fest in the rain in a two-thirds empty soccer stadium.

Had to sit through 50 minutes of that 'till Sam got on for the last half hour.

Poor, poor Bemused Sam. Standing around most of the time having to watch scrum after scrum after scrum after scrum after penalty after scrum ..... Guess he expended more energy in one minute of a Souths training session than in 30 minutes of that.

Counted 2 tackles, one carry and one clearing kick(!) by Sam.

Must be wondering already what he's got himself mixed up with. Top bloke though; won't let it get his spirits down. It's a short career though. The money compensation aside though, he might start thinking another 4 years intense rugby in the NRL and with England might have been a better fulfilment of his talents.

Still wish him all the best though.

Errrmm.... Rocky Elsom? Wycliff Palau? Brad Thorn? Even Nathan Hines played RL until he was 19 ffs. These are facts.

And please... save us the explanation that some of these guys may have played for their school rugby union team or whatever.... Burgess is a freak compared to these guys. If they can do it, then he easily can.

That said, Burgess has no need to try to get into the england union team in the forwards - he will stroll in as a back, simply because he is miles ahead of what they already have.

He must be laughing his arus off at the amount they are paying him to stand around doing nothing!

elsom has only ever played professional union and palu played union before st george. Thorn is a freak.....and the vast majority of cross code league to union players are backs......Burgess will quite possibly do well, but if it were as easy as you think, everyone would be doing it.

spot on gutters, hape and farrell snr show its not that easy but with the springbok leouw mentoring him , hopefully he'll do well

5 hit ups and 7 tackles a game, how hard could it possibly be?

Surely the fact that Hape and Farrell were both good enough to play union for England suggests precisely the opposite? I don't disagree with the point you're trying to make btw but the truth is that league converts have, on the whole, been fairly successful.

hi clearwing i'd agree with u upto a point, but for every jason robinson, theres a joel tompkins. But sams in good hands at Bath so fingers crossed

Thanks. I'd forgotten that Joel Tomkins played for the England RU team. Was just about to do a list of ex Rugby League players who have also played for England RU since the end of shamateurism. Just off the top of my head:
Barrie-Jon Mather
Jason Robinson
Henry Paul
Shontayne Hape
Lesley Vainikolo
Andy Farrell
Chris Ashton
George Ford

I might have missed some

But the union apologists will tell you they were 'failures'!

The 'failures' were the union players who couldn't stop the League lads waltzing in and taking their club or England shirts

Myler got some England caps a few years back I think

I think they all did pretty well actually. There will always be the stephen jones types who WANT a failure but for most England union fans I know, a winning side is more important than how a player holds his knife an fork.