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| Quote ="RLBandit"Arguing about words doesn't get to the core point, which is to understand how well or badly attendances are doing.
For argument's sake, let's say each round of Superleague was played on a single day, at a single venue, like a super bum-numbing magic weekend crammed into one day. If each one of these days was attended by just 10k people (say), we'd be kidding ourselves to say that RL was in great shape because our attendances 'averaged 10k per game' - even though I accept there's a semantic argument to be made where that is technically the case. The point is, it can be as technically true as you like, but it wouldn't represent good attendance figures. 10k attending a whole day is plainly not the same as different groups of 10k people going to multiple games. One says that RL attracts 10k fans, the other says we attract 70k fans. By the same logic, it's a little misleading to say that we sold 45k tickets for Eng-Aus and 45k tickets for Wales-Italy. We didn't. We sold 45k tickets for a double header. In terms of tracking attendances, measuring performance, planning finances, etc. etc. you have to discount the attendances somewhat - I think halving it to 22.5k is probably too much, but recording it as two lots of 45k is misleading too, because we all know that if the games were played separately they wouldn't get 45k each. The only case where I'd change my mind on that is if the double-header cost twice as much as a normal single game event (or close to twice as much anyway, taking into account the cost savings in venue, policing, admin, etc. - two games on the same day are presumably slightly cheaper to stage)'"
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It's not the numbers being argued.
It's the technical description. Some people are insistant on counting games. But you can't count the number of games as some games have been merged into one event.
If there was no double header, we have no way of knowing how many would turn up to the England match and the Wales match separately. Some would have attended both and so would have been counted twice others would not. So it's pointless to count the attendance at both games.
I understand why it's done, but trying to do it is in effect futile.
It is better to call it a Rugby event count the attendance once. It's an acurate description. It's a rugby event, if there had been 2/3 or 4 games it's still one event on one day.
I'm not comparing to other codes, sure if they count twice then we must, when comparing to other codes. But when comparing to other RLWC's with no double headers, you can't just count the number of games, you have to talk about the number of events. If there were only 16 events at previous WC's the fact they are single games, means that comparing this WC with double headers does not work. The closest you can get is counting double headers as one event and dividing by the number of events, dividing by the number of games becomes meaningless.
in the end it does not matter as all the events so far have been fabulously attended.
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| Quote ="Thoth"That is not fact, the only fact is that 45k+ was the declared as the attendance. It is certainly not a fact that 45k+ attended both games by the same logic 45k+ also watched the opening ceremony why not include that in the figure? Say a music festival takes 80000 pass through the gates, 10 different acts perform was the attendance for the festival 80000 or 800000 ? The same goes for tennis, boxing, athletics, RU, cricket, martial arts. Standard practice is to count it as a single attendance.'"
:clap:
Finally, some people that actually understand.
He can keep saying 45,052 attended each game until the cows come home. It doesn't make it a fact and he has no evidence to back it up because it simply isn't true. Counting an event attendance as two game attendances does not give you an accurate attendance figure and never will. | | |
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Quote ="Wellsy13"And neither are you. You have assumed that because 45k tickets were sold that 45k attended both games. They didn't. It would be like arguing 85,000 attended the Year 7 Champion Schools Boys final every year. It simply isn't true.'" No, im not assuming anything. Im saying that becaue 45k were sold thats the figure we use. People who didnt bother to turn up, those who got lost on the way, those got up to get a pie are irrelevant. We dont discount them from any other game, why would we for this?
Quote You don't have the data for both games. You only have the data for one event. You can't just make assumptions that they attended both games if a hell of a lot of them left. It wouldn't give you an accurate reading. You wouldn't get a credible statistic by adding 90,000 to the aggregate attendance for the World Cup.'"
No, there are two data-sets. Here is a match report on the wales game giving the attendance for the Wales game. www.sportinglife.com/rugby-leagu ... ales-scalp and here is a match report for the England game. 2 data sets. 2 games. 2 attendances.
Quote Any way you try and spin it, it wouldn't paint a proper picture'" im not spinning anything. Im all those reported to have attended the games and dividing them by all the games played. It is you who needs to 'merge' games to make them fit.
Quote Again, utter rubbish.
Normally, you'd be comparing like for like in that a rugby league match is being held in a stadium where tickets are sold and people are then counted as they enter. That process doesn't change depending on the team or the stadium so why you've mentioned it I haven't a clue?'" Erm, because the amount of tickets sold is often dependent on when, where and who is playing.
Quote And yes, the double header may have increased the attendance. England vs Australia at one stadium may have got a 30,000 crowd and Wales vs Italy at another may have gotten 5,000, overall making 35,000 attendees at two events compared to 45,000 at one more attractive event. I have counted that. What I haven't done is multiplied it by two to make it seem like it was more than it is. Nor have I halved it to make it seem like less. Both wouldn't paint an accurate picture at all.
Skewing a statistic was not the aim of getting more attendees. Selling more tickets was the aim of getting more attendees.'" Nobody but you, gutterfax and William Eve is trying to skew the statistics. Nearly everyone else is simply taking all those who attended the games and dividing it by the games played.
Quote You say you like to deal in facts Smokey, so here is the one fact that is known.
Fact: 45,052 attended the double header.
Fiction: 45,052 attended game one and 45,052 attended game two for an aggregate attendance of 90,104.'"
It isn’t fiction. 45k attended game 1. 45k attended game 2. If you have any evidence to the contrary provide it.
Quote To say 45,052 attended game one and 45,052 attended game to makes an aggregate attendance of 90,104. There were not 90,000 attendees altogether (whether some were the same people or not). It simply isn't true. Just like saying 30,000 watched any one game of the Magic Weekend. Absolute fiction. Thousands left.'" So now you are trying to move your argument on to saying these people shouldn’t be counted because even though they bought tickets they weren’t there. Why haven’t you done the same for any other games? Some may have not turned up or left early at other games. Season ticket holders are counted even if they don’t turn up. Why are you treating this differently?
Quote If you think it's statistically accurate to skew the overall attendance of SL by adding over 200k for the Magic Weekend then that's pretty worrying!'" so you are you trying to say the average attendance for MM was around 8k? you’re a moron if so. 30k bought a ticket to match 1. 30k bought a ticket to match 2, 30k bought a ticket to match 3 and 30k bought a ticket to match 4. That they bought them as one is irrelevant, that they may have left is irrelevant. The same principle applies to MM and the double header as it does to every other match. If you buy a ticket and get lost on the way, decide not to go, leave half way through. Doesn’t matter. You count.
Quote Err... no, it's not. That's how many people attended both games overall. Not how many attended each game.'" no, its the amount who attended both www.sportinglife.com/rugby-leagu ... ter-defeat and www.sportinglife.com/rugby-leagu ... ales-scalp
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Quote ="Wellsy13"And neither are you. You have assumed that because 45k tickets were sold that 45k attended both games. They didn't. It would be like arguing 85,000 attended the Year 7 Champion Schools Boys final every year. It simply isn't true.'" No, im not assuming anything. Im saying that becaue 45k were sold thats the figure we use. People who didnt bother to turn up, those who got lost on the way, those got up to get a pie are irrelevant. We dont discount them from any other game, why would we for this?
Quote You don't have the data for both games. You only have the data for one event. You can't just make assumptions that they attended both games if a hell of a lot of them left. It wouldn't give you an accurate reading. You wouldn't get a credible statistic by adding 90,000 to the aggregate attendance for the World Cup.'"
No, there are two data-sets. Here is a match report on the wales game giving the attendance for the Wales game. www.sportinglife.com/rugby-leagu ... ales-scalp and here is a match report for the England game. 2 data sets. 2 games. 2 attendances.
Quote Any way you try and spin it, it wouldn't paint a proper picture'" im not spinning anything. Im all those reported to have attended the games and dividing them by all the games played. It is you who needs to 'merge' games to make them fit.
Quote Again, utter rubbish.
Normally, you'd be comparing like for like in that a rugby league match is being held in a stadium where tickets are sold and people are then counted as they enter. That process doesn't change depending on the team or the stadium so why you've mentioned it I haven't a clue?'" Erm, because the amount of tickets sold is often dependent on when, where and who is playing.
Quote And yes, the double header may have increased the attendance. England vs Australia at one stadium may have got a 30,000 crowd and Wales vs Italy at another may have gotten 5,000, overall making 35,000 attendees at two events compared to 45,000 at one more attractive event. I have counted that. What I haven't done is multiplied it by two to make it seem like it was more than it is. Nor have I halved it to make it seem like less. Both wouldn't paint an accurate picture at all.
Skewing a statistic was not the aim of getting more attendees. Selling more tickets was the aim of getting more attendees.'" Nobody but you, gutterfax and William Eve is trying to skew the statistics. Nearly everyone else is simply taking all those who attended the games and dividing it by the games played.
Quote You say you like to deal in facts Smokey, so here is the one fact that is known.
Fact: 45,052 attended the double header.
Fiction: 45,052 attended game one and 45,052 attended game two for an aggregate attendance of 90,104.'"
It isn’t fiction. 45k attended game 1. 45k attended game 2. If you have any evidence to the contrary provide it.
Quote To say 45,052 attended game one and 45,052 attended game to makes an aggregate attendance of 90,104. There were not 90,000 attendees altogether (whether some were the same people or not). It simply isn't true. Just like saying 30,000 watched any one game of the Magic Weekend. Absolute fiction. Thousands left.'" So now you are trying to move your argument on to saying these people shouldn’t be counted because even though they bought tickets they weren’t there. Why haven’t you done the same for any other games? Some may have not turned up or left early at other games. Season ticket holders are counted even if they don’t turn up. Why are you treating this differently?
Quote If you think it's statistically accurate to skew the overall attendance of SL by adding over 200k for the Magic Weekend then that's pretty worrying!'" so you are you trying to say the average attendance for MM was around 8k? you’re a moron if so. 30k bought a ticket to match 1. 30k bought a ticket to match 2, 30k bought a ticket to match 3 and 30k bought a ticket to match 4. That they bought them as one is irrelevant, that they may have left is irrelevant. The same principle applies to MM and the double header as it does to every other match. If you buy a ticket and get lost on the way, decide not to go, leave half way through. Doesn’t matter. You count.
Quote Err... no, it's not. That's how many people attended both games overall. Not how many attended each game.'" no, its the amount who attended both www.sportinglife.com/rugby-leagu ... ter-defeat and www.sportinglife.com/rugby-leagu ... ales-scalp
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| Quote ="Thoth"
if there was a festival, that had one stage with 10 bands on one after each other, 8,000 people attended, each band would have had 8,000 watching them.
your analogy doesn't work as at festivals you don't need to publish an attendance figure for each band, at sporting events you publish a figure for each game, what do you want the published figure to be for the wales italy game?
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| Quote ="bewareshadows"It's not the numbers being argued.
It's the technical description. Some people are insistant on counting games. But you can't count the number of games as some games have been merged into one event.
If there was no double header, we have no way of knowing how many would turn up to the England match and the Wales match separately. Some would have attended both and so would have been counted twice others would not. So it's pointless to count the attendance at both games.
I understand why it's done, but trying to do it is in effect futile.
It is better to call it a Rugby event count the attendance once. It's an acurate description. It's a rugby event, if there had been 2/3 or 4 games it's still one event on one day.
I'm not comparing to other codes, sure if they count twice then we must, when comparing to other codes. But when comparing to other RLWC's with no double headers, you can't just count the number of games, you have to talk about the number of events. If there were only 16 events at previous WC's the fact they are single games, means that comparing this WC with double headers does not work. The closest you can get is counting double headers as one event and dividing by the number of events, dividing by the number of games becomes meaningless.
in the end it does not matter as all the events so far have been fabulously attended.'"
Again, well said.
There is a complete failure in the methodology if anyone tries to compare 30,000 attending two Magic Weekend days each, calling that 210,000 aggregate attendees (which is what you're doing if you say 30,000 attended each game) and saying that that's an increase on if 20,000 attending 7 SL games for a total of 140,000. The two just aren't comparable that way and paints a completely false picture. | | |
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| Quote ="Wellsy13"Where?'" by excluding a game from your results
Quote 4 attendances at 4 events have been given.'" no, 5 attendances at 5 games have been given. If you like i can show you them if you like..
Quote If you cannot tell the difference between one event and one game, there is not hope for you here. You can try and divert the argument all you like by mocking a strawman, all it is doing is showing how desperate you are to find a way to win an argument you're losing.'" I can tell the difference between 1 game and 1 event. I have not at any stage failed to differentiate them .
Quote You can keep repeating that 45,052 attended both games all you like. It just doesn't make it true!'" This is correct. The fact it happened is what makes it true.
Quote I wouldn't say I have one chicken nugget if I had six. Just like I wouldn't say I attended two games if I attended one. And just like I wouldn't say 45,052 attended one game and 45,052 attended another game if I know for a fact that thousands left.'" So what if people left? People leave many games early, they are counted. Some don’t turn up, they are counted.
Quote If they didn't know how many I'd eaten, they wouldn't assume I'd eaten six just because I have a box of six. There'd be a complete and utter failure in the methodology. Just like there is a complete and utter failure in your methodology that 45,052 was the event attendance which means 45,052 attended game one and 45,052 attended game two. There is a huge flaw in the logic, and that is there weren't 45,052 people in attendance at game two!'" Why are you only questioning one reported attendance and not the other 3? If we accept that the reported attendances are correct we accept they are all correct. If we don’t accept they are correct we can’t trust any of them.
Im working with the reported figures. Conspiracy theories about inflation of figures are the property of the trolls and morons. | | |
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Some people are being stupid.
An average of the attendances is calculated by adding all of the official attendance scores up and dividing by the number of games.
All that matters is the official attendance score. Like complaining about a try scored from a possible forward pass, it doesn't actually matter if you disagree with the official account, that account stands and your opinion is only an opinion.
As the official attendance for England v Australia is 45,052 and the official attendance for Wales v Italy is 45,052 then the average attendance for the first 5 games would be:
(45,052 + 45,052 + 13,965 + 7,481 + 8,872 ) / 5
Giving an average attendance of: 24,084.4
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| Quote ="bewareshadows"It's not the numbers being argued.
It's the technical description. Some people are insistant on counting games. But you can't count the number of games as some games have been merged into one event.
If there was no double header, we have no way of knowing how many would turn up to the England match and the Wales match separately. Some would have attended both and so would have been counted twice others would not. So it's pointless to count the attendance at both games.
I understand why it's done, but trying to do it is in effect futile.
It is better to call it a Rugby event count the attendance once. It's an acurate description. It's a rugby event, if there had been 2/3 or 4 games it's still one event on one day.
I'm not comparing to other codes, sure if they count twice then we must, when comparing to other codes. But when comparing to other RLWC's with no double headers, you can't just count the number of games, you have to talk about the number of events. If there were only 16 events at previous WC's the fact they are single games, means that comparing this WC with double headers does not work. The closest you can get is counting double headers as one event and dividing by the number of events, dividing by the number of games becomes meaningless.
in the end it does not matter as all the events so far have been fabulously attended.'"
Your problem is that a like for like comparison with other tournaments on ‘averages’ is meaningless anyway because of the difference in format, more people could attend every game in this WC and we still end up with a lower average because of the structure in the tournament. So if we are going to get an average we should use the actual average i.e all the people who attended divided by all the games which were played. | | |
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there is no other way to get an average attendance than divided the attendance for each game bu the number of games, I cannot believe any one is questioning that?
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Have you really not got anything better to do than plait fog on here all day?
Same few people on every single thread just boring the living **** out of everyone.
I don't post much at all but i used to read this forum every day, often several times a day. In the last few weeks that's become once every few days and for much less time meaning less advertising revenue for RLFans.
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Quote ="SmokeyTA"No, im not assuming anything. Im saying that becaue 45k were sold thats the figure we use. People who didnt bother to turn up, those who got lost on the way, those got up to get a pie are irrelevant. We dont discount them from any other game, why would we for this? '"
Not every event counts tickets sold in the attendances. It's not standard practice.
To be an attendee, the definition lends itself to suggest you should actually have to attend! If you're not in attendance, you're not an attendee, and if someone says that you are then they are lying.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"No, there are two data-sets. Here is a match report on the wales game giving the attendance for the Wales game. www.sportinglife.com/rugby-leagu ... ales-scalp and here is a match report for the England game. 2 data sets. 2 games. 2 attendances. '"
And both attendances are for one event.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"im not spinning anything. Im all those reported to have attended the games and dividing them by all the games played. It is you who needs to 'merge' games to make them fit. '"
Because they are one event. Saying they are two separate attendances is lying.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"Erm, because the amount of tickets sold is often dependent on when, where and who is playing.'"
Yet none of them have anything to do with the process of counting the attendance to create a statistic, so it is irrelevant to the process. As is the weather, if Jupiter has aligned with Mars or if it's a leap year.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"Nobody but you, gutterfax and William Eve is trying to skew the statistics. Nearly everyone else is simply taking all those who attended the games and dividing it by the games played. '"
You're saying that nearly everyone are the people that agree with you? Hmm...
You are trying to skew the attendance in the exact opposite way to William and Gutterfax. You're all wrong.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"It isn’t fiction. 45k attended game 1. 45k attended game 2. If you have any evidence to the contrary provide it. '"
The people sat behind me left after game one. Would you like a picture of their empty chair?
Quote ="SmokeyTA"So now you are trying to move your argument on to saying these people shouldn’t be counted because even though they bought tickets they weren’t there. Why haven’t you done the same for any other games? Some may have not turned up or left early at other games. Season ticket holders are counted even if they don’t turn up. Why are you treating this differently?'"
If they attended the game and left early, they still attended the game. So again, irrelevant.
It's not standard practice to count season ticket holders. Some places do, some don't. I don't agree with it. You should have to be in attendance to be counted as the attendance. That's why it's called that!
People didn't have the choice of buying a ticket for one match, so to count their attendance for both games would be completely inaccurate statistic and show nothing.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"so you are you trying to say the average attendance for MM was around 8k? you’re a moron if so.'"
If you think that's what I'm trying to say then you're a moron.
You can't work out the average for MW because you don't know how many were in attendance at each match. You only have the overall event attendance for each day. I honestly can't make it any clearer. You're either being too stubborn to admit that, being difficult for the sake of being difficult, or you're a bit simple.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"30k bought a ticket to match 1. 30k bought a ticket to match 2, 30k bought a ticket to match 3 and 30k bought a ticket to match 4. That they bought them as one is irrelevant, that they may have left is irrelevant. The same principle applies to MM and the double header as it does to every other match. If you buy a ticket and get lost on the way, decide not to go, leave half way through. Doesn’t matter. You count. '"
I'd say that it's pretty damn relevant that you are in attendance to be counted on the attendance!
Keep saying it. Eventually it might come true... |
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Quote ="SmokeyTA"No, im not assuming anything. Im saying that becaue 45k were sold thats the figure we use. People who didnt bother to turn up, those who got lost on the way, those got up to get a pie are irrelevant. We dont discount them from any other game, why would we for this? '"
Not every event counts tickets sold in the attendances. It's not standard practice.
To be an attendee, the definition lends itself to suggest you should actually have to attend! If you're not in attendance, you're not an attendee, and if someone says that you are then they are lying.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"No, there are two data-sets. Here is a match report on the wales game giving the attendance for the Wales game. www.sportinglife.com/rugby-leagu ... ales-scalp and here is a match report for the England game. 2 data sets. 2 games. 2 attendances. '"
And both attendances are for one event.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"im not spinning anything. Im all those reported to have attended the games and dividing them by all the games played. It is you who needs to 'merge' games to make them fit. '"
Because they are one event. Saying they are two separate attendances is lying.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"Erm, because the amount of tickets sold is often dependent on when, where and who is playing.'"
Yet none of them have anything to do with the process of counting the attendance to create a statistic, so it is irrelevant to the process. As is the weather, if Jupiter has aligned with Mars or if it's a leap year.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"Nobody but you, gutterfax and William Eve is trying to skew the statistics. Nearly everyone else is simply taking all those who attended the games and dividing it by the games played. '"
You're saying that nearly everyone are the people that agree with you? Hmm...
You are trying to skew the attendance in the exact opposite way to William and Gutterfax. You're all wrong.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"It isn’t fiction. 45k attended game 1. 45k attended game 2. If you have any evidence to the contrary provide it. '"
The people sat behind me left after game one. Would you like a picture of their empty chair?
Quote ="SmokeyTA"So now you are trying to move your argument on to saying these people shouldn’t be counted because even though they bought tickets they weren’t there. Why haven’t you done the same for any other games? Some may have not turned up or left early at other games. Season ticket holders are counted even if they don’t turn up. Why are you treating this differently?'"
If they attended the game and left early, they still attended the game. So again, irrelevant.
It's not standard practice to count season ticket holders. Some places do, some don't. I don't agree with it. You should have to be in attendance to be counted as the attendance. That's why it's called that!
People didn't have the choice of buying a ticket for one match, so to count their attendance for both games would be completely inaccurate statistic and show nothing.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"so you are you trying to say the average attendance for MM was around 8k? you’re a moron if so.'"
If you think that's what I'm trying to say then you're a moron.
You can't work out the average for MW because you don't know how many were in attendance at each match. You only have the overall event attendance for each day. I honestly can't make it any clearer. You're either being too stubborn to admit that, being difficult for the sake of being difficult, or you're a bit simple.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"30k bought a ticket to match 1. 30k bought a ticket to match 2, 30k bought a ticket to match 3 and 30k bought a ticket to match 4. That they bought them as one is irrelevant, that they may have left is irrelevant. The same principle applies to MM and the double header as it does to every other match. If you buy a ticket and get lost on the way, decide not to go, leave half way through. Doesn’t matter. You count. '"
I'd say that it's pretty damn relevant that you are in attendance to be counted on the attendance!
Keep saying it. Eventually it might come true... | |
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Let's say London Broncos decide to sell me 12,000 tickets at the Stoop for £1.
For some reason, I can't sell many of them on. 2,000 people go through the turnstiles to watch the game.
Is the attendance 12,000?
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| Quote ="django"Some people are being stupid.
An average of the attendances is calculated by adding all of the official attendance scores up and dividing by the number of games.
All that matters is the official attendance score. Like complaining about a try scored from a possible forward pass, it doesn't actually matter if you disagree with the official account, that account stands and your opinion is only an opinion.
As the official attendance for England v Australia is 45,052 and the official attendance for Wales v Italy is 45,052 then the average attendance for the first 5 games would be:
(45,052 + 45,052 + 13,965 + 7,481 + 8,872 ) / 5
Giving an average attendance of: 24,084.4'"
So you would include a 210,000 aggregate attendance from the Magic Weekend into working out the Super League average attendance?
Regardless, whether you do it or not, or whether it's the official way or not, doesn't mean it's right. | | |
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| Quote ="Wellsy13"Not every event counts tickets sold in the attendances. It's not standard practice.
To be an attendee, the definition lends itself to suggest you should actually have to attend! If you're not in attendance, you're not an attendee, and if someone says that you are then they are lying.'" Every other game in the RLWC has used the same principle. Why would we change it just for this game?
Quote And both attendances are for one event.'" Yes, both. I.e TWO. You are almost there. Keep trying.
Quote
Because they are one event. Saying they are two separate attendances is lying.'" Why would sporting life lie about it? You are getting like AP now where anything reported that doesn’t fit your bias is a lie. The RFL are liars, the BBC are liars, the RFU when they do it are liars. You sound like a child.
Quote Yet none of them have anything to do with the process of counting the attendance to create a statistic, so it is irrelevant to the process. As is the weather, if Jupiter has aligned with Mars or if it's a leap year.'" You seem to have forgotten the context in which that comment was made which is in relation to comparing like for like. I was saying we aren’t comparing like for like, we are comparing different games, between different teams, in a different location at a different time in a tournament with a different structure.
Quote You're saying that nearly everyone are the people that agree with you? Hmm...
You are trying to skew the attendance in the exact opposite way to William and Gutterfax. You're all wrong.'" Everyone is wrong, everyone is a liar. Are you going to stamp your feet next?
Quote The people sat behind me left after game one. Would you like a picture of their empty chair?'" Unless you are going to do the same investigation into the reported attendance of all 28 games then no, it is irrelevant.
Quote If they attended the game and left early, they still attended the game. So again, irrelevant.
It's not standard practice to count season ticket holders. Some places do, some don't. I don't agree with it. You should have to be in attendance to be counted as the attendance. That's why it's called that!'" It is standard practice, not just in sports but in any venue. If it a ticket as sold, whatever package it is sold from it is sold. It cannot be sold again. The money has been received. It is also the practice used in the last WC and the rest of this one.
Quote People didn't have the choice of buying a ticket for one match, so to count their attendance for both games would be completely inaccurate statistic and show nothing.'" Those who attended bought a ticket for both games. Why they did that doesn’t in any way effect the fact that they did that.
Quote If you think that's what I'm trying to say then you're a moron.
You can't work out the average for MW because you don't know how many were in attendance at each match. You only have the overall event attendance for each day. I honestly can't make it any clearer. You're either being too stubborn to admit that, being difficult for the sake of being difficult, or you're a bit simple.'" We can, very easily work out the average attendance for MM. Take the cumulative reported attendances and divide it by the number of games. That’s how you find an average.
Quote I'd say that it's pretty damn relevant that you are in attendance to be counted on the attendance!'" But seemingly only for this game. Not every other game that has ever been played (bar MM for some reason) If you want to use that principle then you need to use it for every game. So before you put any trust in any of the 3 other figures being reported you will need to do you, Billy and Gutterfax can sit, watch a replay of the game and try and count every single person there, remembering to factor in those who went for a pie/wee etc.
Quote Keep saying it. Eventually it might come true...'" Surprisingly enough, im not the sporting life website. | | |
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| Quote ="Wellsy13"So you would include a 210,000 aggregate attendance from the Magic Weekend into working out the Super League average attendance?
Regardless, whether you do it or not, or whether it's the official way or not, doesn't mean it's right.'"
Yes, what seem to forget is that figure would then be divided by 7 before being included in the averages of each club. If you didn’t you would be saying that the attendance for that game was 8k, when it was 30k. | | |
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In the words of the great Monty Python team “is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?”
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As anyone got any aspirins??
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Anyways. I've had my say. Some people agree, some people disagree.
To summarise my standpoint:
To be counted in the attendance, you should actually have to be in attendance.
Using the attendance of one event to mean the same as the attendance at both games is incorrect because people leave before or arrive after certain games and are therefore not always in attendances (see above).
Aggregating your attendance at one event to being the same as two games and summing it up with events with only one game is a completely and utterly flawed methodology and proves nothing so it shouldn't be done. Yes you are technically in attendance at two games, but it is not a like-for-like comparison. If you want to do this, it is even more pointless to pretend that the number of people in overall attendance of an event is the same as for each game, therefore making an even greater statistically incorrect statement.
I'll let someone else have a go!
(As for those complaining about this thread, it's not hard to avoid it, just like I avoid as many of the threads continually whinging about Nigel Wood and the RFL!)
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I've tried to explain that you cannot use the total attendance for a double header twice as the individual attendance for each game. I've also explained that you can't halve this figure and use it twice, either.
Again using Magic as a comparison. If you are working out the total average attendance of a full SL campaign, using Smokey's method this would add 210,000 to the cumulative total, when in reality it is 60k.
It is the same with this, if you take the 45k twice and say Wembley will get 75k, the total attendance figures would be inflated by 120k. The only fair way to average out this tournament is to take the total attendance from the 26 events and divide it by 26. This is the true average. It is not saying that 2 games did not occur, just that 4 games took place at 2 events.
I know people won't agree, but using any other method scews the final figures.
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It doesn't skew anything it's the only way to do it.
What does your clubs attendances for last year include from the magic weekend?
The Leeds Wigan game has 31234 as the attendance.
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It seems to me that people are confusing two different issues, Ticket Sales and Match Attendance. Due to double headers and some people not watching both matches it is not possible to say with any confidence how many people who had a ticket and entered the Millenium Stadium actually watched each match. What is know is that the organisers were prepared to allow 45022 people to watch each match. That is the official attendance for each match. The fact it was the same people is irrelevant for the aggregate attendance.
What really is far more important is revenue generated for the entire tournament, due to the large number of discounts available that may not be as impressive as aggregate attendances would suggest.
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| How on earth did this thread get to 12 page, wtf is the problem here 
Quote ="Little Ivor"HOW F*****G HARD IS IT for both gutterfax and SmokeyTA to understand?!
1. The average attendance should be calculated for the 5 games that there have been so far, with a 45k attendance for each of the Cardiff games.
2. The aggregate attendance for the tournament should count the total crowd for the 4 events that there have been so far, counting the 45k once.
They're two separate things and really not that hard to deal with seperately.
Oh, and:
3. We're all getting REALLY fed up of the petty irrelevant sniping from both of you, do it over PM if you must.
Rant over
'"
As stated, here's some nice definitions and what you're really arguing over is which concept we should use. Not what is the 'correct' way to look at it.
Average Match Attendance: Average of the number of people who purchased tickets/turned up for each match. AKA, double-counting double-headers, as the people are there for both.
Average Event Attendance: Average number of people who went to each event. Equivalent to the aggregate ticket sales over the number of matches.
Aggregate Event Attendance: Total number of ticket sales, or AEA x Number of Events. Does not double-count.
There is no right or wrong way of doing it, they're blunt mathematical instruments. Please squabble elsewhere. | | |
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