Watched Super League Back Chat and there isn't a week that goes by where he isn't pushing P & R, and irritatingly shouts down anyone that dares disagree with him.

Is there a chance we could get a journalist on this show that actually knows what the hell they are talking about?

I would also appreciate it if they stopped saying that all of the fans want it back because that isn't the case. I know just as many who are against that are for.

Memo to Rod Studd and the other so called journalists on BackChat:

[uPromotion & Relegation is a british sporting tradition, but so is losing. [/u

Why can't we just stick to one thing for a few years without chopping and changing?

As a London fan, you ought to be excited at the prospect of your club being presented with an opportunity to contest more meaningful fixtures next season. Having to target a minimum 12th placed finish next season surely has to be a better and more exciting nose bleed prospect than simply being handed a license to drift along in 13th or 14th position in perpetuity?

Where is the motivation for the club to improve when it is rewarded each season for being utterly crap?

Exactly.

The new P&R rules are for 2015, please get your facts right Keith.
Oh and we haven't finished in a relegation spot yet, unlike other clubs who have been saved from such a fate.

I'm aware of that but there remains the need to get rid of 2 current SL clubs before 2015, therefore how would you suggest this will be achieved fairly other than the P&R route and by finishing 13th or 14th in 2014?


Exactly! P&R shouldn't be a worry for London fans then.

[url=http://littlegrubbers.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/brief-history-of-promotion-and.htmlNo it ain't[/url

See also, "First past the post is the way we decided who the Champions are."

(Burnham should stick to the day job anyway.)

Well I am not the only one who thinks he is right.

Roy Studd is talking sense. Sorry you don't agree but this sport will die without promotion and relegation.

Bring back Promotion and Relegation....it worked so well before.



1996 Workington Town: Currently Mid table in the 2nd Tier after a few dark seasons staring at the Abyss.
1997 Oldham Bears: Currently as the Roughyeds in Champ 1 after going to the wall with 2 million in debts from trying to stay up
1997 Part 2: PSG folded.....with massive debts
1998: Hudds finished bottom but were saved
1999: Hudds merged with Sheffield to stay up
2000: Hudds/Sheffield bottom but saved again
2001: Huddersfield: Currently sitting pretty in SL with one of the strongest squads and a Sugar Daddy.
2002: Salford: Cellar Dwellars but with a new impatient Sugar Daddy keen to break the cap


2003: Halifax: Currently a Championship heavy hitter with a business plan that most definitely wasn't written on the back of a beermat


2004: Castleford Tigers: Currently cellar dwelling with troubles surrounding a new ground and other finances.
2005: Leigh: Now you see us, now you don't. A club that actually seems happy where it is in the Championship.
2005 PART 2: Widnes Vikings....relegated to make way for the smelly French....they went bust on debts accrued trying to stay up/get promoted.
2006: Castleford Tigers (again)....
2007: Salford City Reds (again)....
2008: Closed the trap door.

From what I can see, Huddersfield benefited from being saved a number of times before getting the chance to regroup, whilst all the other clubs that have gone down have not kicked on or prospered.

Of the clubs to have earned promotion but been denied since 2009...Barrow, Halifax, Sheffield and Featherstone Rovers, which would have delivered more than Catalans, Crusaders (2) or Widnes.

Yep, the Welsh were a mistake......but who says SL isn't better off for the inclusion of the white flag waving surrender monkeys?

Last year/This season, Widnes would have been replaced by Sheffield Eagles.....who would have not known they were playing in SL until September 30th.....by which stage, most, if not all the decent players available would have been snapped up.

Sheffield played their "cup final" v London last weekend......the worst London side in the history of SL....they came up short....they would be perennial whipping boys for the year and in all probability, without a sugar daddy, go to the wall trying to stay up.

Yeah....let's bring back promotion and relegation and while we're at it, remove the regulations regarding overseas players and do away with the cap.....we'll have a 4 year free for all and then a reversion to a semi-pro league with maybe 2 big clubs winning everything and it'll all be available to watch on Premier Sports TV in a Rileys snooker hall near youd040.gif

Gatehead and Hull ??

No intention of knocking London, but they have NEVER been promoted to warrant SL status. At least the clubs you have mentioned have achieved this (the hard way !!)

London were placed in SL to sell Sky Dishes. It ain't working and their crowds show that.

London being potentially involved in a really competative League they can do well in, should result in the London fanbase increasing, not relying on the top teams topping up the attendances by 3k !

The RFL have had to take evasive action. Franchising hasn't worked and too many big SL clubs (including London) have been in difficulty,

It was inevitable P&R has returned IMHO.

It was inevitable because most of the fans and administrators are stupid idiots.

Spot on...the entire licencing farce has stumbled from error to catastrophe and all the while, the RFL has stood by and watched it happen.

That said, as a London supporter, I have little sympathy for us now......if we are relegated in 2015 or if we don't make it that far, it's not like we weren't warned.

The only way to save London NOW is for David Hughes to hand back the licence NOW.....mid season. The RFL would soon get their fingers out and sort out assistance rather than just paying lip service to the "expansionist" lobby in Red Hall.

Licensing hasn't caused the problems that any clubs may have faced. Don't try to use that as a scapegoat for sheer bad management

I think the RFL would snap David Hughes hands off if he handed their licence in now. London not making the cut in SL for 2014 would aliviate a lot of problems for the RFL. I keep hearing about Featherstone preparing for full-time status next year virtually every week up here in flat-cap land. On standby maybe ?

the only problem with licensing is that its being administrated by a bunch of yellow bellies at the RFL.

I have never seen so many talented young british players coming through and getting first chance and its only taken 3 years wonder what 6 would achieve.

The RFL are trying appease every one and that does not work in business, no team would improve superleague if they got promoted not a single 1.

Why don't we try a new idea and go for consistency, State of origin didn't become popular over night its taken 30 years of hype to build it to what it is now. The NRL didn't just get given a lot of money over night its built the league and marketed it hard and now its booming it didn't panic at every speed bum it stayed consistent!

That’s the problem, Shoe-horning P+R in, moving to a 12 team league, top 5 play-offs, wont solve, or even address the problems the game faces. Neither would staying with licensing or moving to franchising. Licensing was only ever supposed to provide the platform and stability for the game to address its problems, the game did address some of them, failed to address some of them. This change wont address any of the problems the game has, none at all. That’s why its such a regressive and cowardly measure. It’s a sop, an abdication of responsibility. It wont kill the game, it wont destroy it or send it back to semi-pro, it will undo some of the gains we have made and set us back probably 10 years, but ultimately the format we have is becoming irrelevant because the game simply isn’t addressing its real problems. Poor management and governance at all levels.

I look forward to featherstone, Halifax or Leigh making SL more sustainable.

For years, I was all for promotion and relegation completely of the opinion that it was the only way forward for Rugby League because the teams at the bottom of SL needed something to fight for and the teams below Super League need something to aspire to. But the closer we get to a return to P&R the more and more I think it is a terrible idea which will damage the game.

I do believe that the dwindling crowds in the Championship and Championship 1 are mainly attributable to a no promotion, but it's just not the way forward. The RFL seriously need to look at reinstating the U23s for next year. As someone has already mentioned in this thread, we currently have more young tallented players coming through than we probably ever have done and although there is the federation trained rule in place, it will not stop teams from trying to buy their way out of relegation as opposed to giving youth their chance to shine.

The RFL needs to look at how all 14 Super League teams can be sustainable if this means dropping the league to 12 so be it, but don't bring back relegation.

I honestly don't think that promotion and relegation can be re-introduced until we have a full time professional Championship division otherwise we are just going to have the same 3 or 4 teams yo-yoing until they go bankrupt.

Have Hull KR ??? I think they have however they were in the same position as above clubs (even worse) for years in the lower divisions. Don't other clubs deserve the same chance Hull KR have had ???

to spend lots of money they dont have on overseas players, neglect youth development, get themselves in to a ton of debt? No, not really.

For all the positives and negatives of Hull KR and their position in SL, its pretty clear that the way they had to do it only made it much harder and led to an outcome we, as a game, and HKR as a club, didn’t want.

They have had to spend money to turn the club from a NL club to a SL one. Much like Warrington needed ro spend far more than most other clubs to turn a lower SL club into one constantly challenging for honours... Like Hull needed a merger and how much from the RFL to turn the club from a joke to a big fish in the domestic game. I think HKR have only started a proper youth system since there inclusion in SL ??? That's going to take a few more years... Rome wasn't built in a day.

You need to get your head around the fact clubs like Leeds and Wigan run themselves where as FAR more hard work needs to go into running the majority of sporting clubs in this country.

Clubs do need to spend a hell of a lot of money changing from an NL club to an SL club, thats why it is crazy to have a system whereby whether or not you need to make that investment is decided by the bounce of a ball and not by whether or not you can make that investment, and a bounce of a ball can also undo all the gains that investment has made.

It does take years, and rome wasnt built in a day. Hence why P+R isnt a very good option.

Hull KR have done all they have done without finishing in a relegation spot, what's to stop Fev, Halifax or Leigh ??? It's possible to plan for the future and stay up in a higher division while investing in the club. Sport is littered with examples of this....

££££££

The money HKR spent on the absolute nonsense players they needed to sign just to stay up would have been far better spent on youth development, infrastructure or even just saved for a later date. P+R ensured HKR spent money on things that didn’t contribute to their long term sustainability just so they stayed up, that was at the expense of spending that money on things which did contribute to their long term sustainability.

Hull KR getting relegated would roll back a huge amount of what they have needed to do to build to where they are, the promoted team would then need to spend the huge amounts of money HKR spent just to get to the same level. The game would be no further forward, we would in fact have gone backwards from having 1 club at HKR’s level to having 0 clubs at HKR’s level.

replacing HKR, with a club who would need to spend millions to build to where HKR are right now, when HKR still need to spend millions to get where they need to be, makes no sense for a sport looking to grow,

But who gave HKR the god given right to be able to do this at the expense of say Leigh ??? The people of Leigh deserve a shot just as much as any other club given promotion during the summer era without having to tick ridiculous boxes they can't ever tick (the not having any other clubs in x amount of miles radius) and boxes that would be very hard to tick without being in SL in the first place. I know judging sporting clubs on what they do on the pitch first and foremost isn't popular with everyone but thank god the SL chairman agree its the best way forward.