www.crusadersrfl.com/article.php?id=3443 Announced by club on website today

www.crusadersrfl.com/article.php?id=3443 Announced by club on website today

Well here's hoping the club can be run a little better so they don't have to go through all this again next year

Same time next year then? What an utter joke.

No worse than Wigan being let into Super League after going bust and being bought for a fiver just to enable Whelan to get planning permission for his new football stadium. Or Wigan being allowed to stay in SL after openly cheating their way out of relegation.

You good wishes are appreciated. Let the haters hate.

Not a hater i dont think, just maybe hes getting a bit fed up. I really hope they can grow and they had a good season last year. I just dont want it to be another wasted experiment by the RFL. If they are to compete in SL they have to be sustainable and be reliant on the RFL, lets hope they can do this from now on.

I agree, they shouldn't let clubs who have had financial difficulty into Super league should they?

Thats why half of the clubs in SL shouldn't be in there and we should as in our current position, are one of the most professional, organised run clubs in England.

Crusaders might say that this time next season, bar the England bit.

And what happens when Steve O'Connor stops financing Widnes?

And what proof have you that this will happen? he's been here 3 years and put more into this club then what some SL chairmans have put into their own club. He's here, he is ambitious and he wants to stay. So i will look at it from this prospective and until the situation changes, which will not be any time soon i am fully confident we will do very well once back in SL.

Crusaders may become a sustainable SL club only time will tell and i hope they do but until they stop relying on the RFL bailing them out, its never going to work.

What proof do you have he will stay? At some point he will leave the club. Be it 5 years or 20 years. But at some point his financial backing will not be available to Widnes. Obviously the hope is that the club will be self-sustaining by that point. But what if he leaves in 5 years time? Could Widnes, with the advantage their heritage and history brings them, be totally self-sustaining with Super League costs in 5 years time? A lot can happen in 5 years.

In the end you have only the same assurances that Leighton Samuel gave re Crusaders. Why should the RFL believe Steve O'Connor and not the new Crusaders owners?

I make no comment on the current state of your club running/finances as I know nothing about it. However many years of observation have taught me that every time a fresh broom comes in at a club it makes ringing pledges of future solvency, prudent dealings and vows to have learned the lessons of the past. [iEvery[/i new administration says the same things, and their local press proudly proclaims it as if JC himself had arrived. Forget the past. All will now forever be well.

Sadly, in pretty much every case, sooner or later, it all isn't well. Again.

I have nothing against Widnes, indeed as I'm old enough to remember them in their pomp. I like Widnes, and don't begrudge them a place in SL if available, and I wish them and Steve O'Connor every success. Therefore I sincerely hope that the usual fate doesn't befall them. But it ill behoves fans of a club that was in administration as recently as 2007 to be claiming financial bragging rights. And if you did get back in SL then you'd need a massive and improbable increase in base support if you wanted to be both competitive and operating in the black. If your argument is, "we don't need to do that, as we have a rich backer so as long as he keeps chucking it in then we're OK", you might be right, but that doesn't support your argument at all, on the contrary, it contradicts it.

Can we try not to turn this into another Widnes Vs Cru & SL debate please?
Let's just move on SO'C is doing a superb job at Widnes off the field & Cru owners have been given another chance from scratch to see what they can achieve with Crusaders. This time next year may paint an interesting picture all around but for now we are where we are.

Hate? Where's the hate? Is it because I'm a Widnes fan that all Widnes fans are assumed to be haters? I bear no malice on the Crusaders, only pity for the utterly comical way that they have been ran into the ground year on year.

Steve O'Connor plans to make us into a self sufficient club that can sustain itself, with a long term vision and a sustainable plan of growth. So far, this man has been true to his word on all counts unlike some chairmen in RL.

You changed that quickly. Obviously thought your needlessly aggressive tone wouldn't advance your argument.

Isn't that what all chairmen plan to do? And every chairman is true to his word until he breaks it. From what I've seen Steve O'Connor appears committed to Widnes for the medium term. But as I said in my previous post, what happens when he goes. At some point he will, its inevitable. If he goes in 20 years there's time to get the club on a sustainable footing although that obviously a lot easier to say than to do. What if he goes in 5 years time? Will Widnes be self-sustaining by that time or will they need financial support?

Spot on.




Again, spot on.

90% of clubs would suffer majorly without a big backer(s) the only ones you could argue wouldnt would be those who post a profit? Widnes one of those as are Batley & Workington but then the likes of Saints & KR make big losses so use that how you will, we all need owners it just depends if those owners have long / short term aims for the club. IMO any money man can make a decent side on the field for a few years, however it takes a real business man & determined man to make a club sustainable and successful over a longer period of time. Which one of these Cru owners are IMO could determine the feit of Welsh club RL!

I'd agree with all of that. There's probably only Leeds, Wigan and Hull FC who could operate without a financial backer and prosper.
My point was that in this regard, Widnes are no different from Crusaders, in that we are taking the word of the financial backers of the two clubs that they are in it for the long haul. Now the last few years at Widnes has made Steve O'Connor's word more credible, but in the end it's still only his personal assurance that he will stay, as it is the owners of Crusaders, Hull KR, Salford, Quins or as you rightly pointed out the majority of the other clubs.

Widnes already have a good following, and can attract 6,500 – 7,000 fans in Super league. The infrastructure, and youth set up are first rate. It is now partly owned by the local council and the stadium rent is now low. We would be in a better position than every other club in Super league, should our main backer leave. Only the big clubs you mentioned would fair better, imo.

The last time we were in SL, we made a slight profit. We are nothing like the Crusaders – old or new.

Glad to see the Crusaders out of admin though. Let’s see what they can do, without being hamstrung by the mess left by Leighton Samuel. I’ll be looking forward to some cracking derby games, should we get the nod for SL next year.

I would class Widnes as similar to Cas, in a sort of "middle ground" of SL. Could finish 4th or 5th on a good year, or 10th or 11th on a bad year.


You are similar to Crusaders in that you still need a financial backer until the club can become self sustaining. Admittedly Widnes would become self-sufficient quicker and would fair better if that financial backing were taken away.


Yep, and I sincerely hope Widnes get into Super League, just at the expense of a failed Wakefield instead of a struggling to establish itself Crusaders.

Fair commentsand all any crusaders fans wants is stability and long term sustainability. Look forward to playing you guys in the future

I didn't know and couldn't care less that you're a widnes fan but your post was as constructive and as useful as second hand toilet paper.

Sounds about right, although SOC seems to think that Widnes won’t be in SL just to make up the numbers, but to dominate the league in the years to come. This could be just hyperbole, which is vented in an attempt to drum up interest and enthusiasm around the club, but he certainly has the financial clout to make it happen if he wants to.

Personally, I think we’ll spend our first season or two in the same way all new SL clubs do, scraping along the bottom. After that, SOC may be able to make good on his promise.


What the future holds for the Crusaders, I have no idea. But, as it stands at the moment, we are in a much more favorable position to be financially stable either way. We are not in the same position as them.

The Crusaders are looking to be the club they should’ve been, on their initial entry into Super League. Hopefully they can build on that prospect and get something special going on there.


I think we can safely say that it will not be at the expense of the Crusaders.