We saw two blatent examples tonight of Sam Tomkins clamping the opponents hand but on the second attempt on Sinfield you could clearly see that sinfield was not moving his arm away when released.

Problem is if they move their hand and the ball comes loose you get penalised for stripping the ball and if you don't you`ll get penalised for messing about.

Personally any holding of the tackler is the lowest form of gamesmanship and should be outlawed.

bring in a second ref, police both proper PTBs and this sort of shenanigoat.

yeh cause 2 refs has made a huge improvement in the NRL, not!

I just don't get why they can't see it happening. It's not like he's doing it out of eye shot. The second one in particular Sinfield is appealing to the ref throughout.

It needs to be dealt with. The RFL should send him a letter this week and ensure it isn't allowed to happen again. Wigan are the only club I've seen do it and to be fair to Tomkins there was a controversy earlier in the season where they were seen practicising it in the warmup, so it's obviously something Maguire has brought in.

It's something the defenders cannot do anything about. In those situations had they pulled their arm out it would have forced the ball out as well and we all know which way the penalties would go.

It is absolute rubbish to suggest that pulling your arm away would "force the ball out". Why would it? IF the ball is above the arm then all it will achieve is allowing the carrier to pull the ball closer to him! What forces the ball out is getting hold of it and pulling or pushing.

Also I'm not sure how a player who can bench press five small hatchbacks can suddenly lose the strength to move a "clamped" arm.

In both situations at the weekend the tacklers arm was trapped between the ball and Tomkins body. Pulling the arm out would surely have affected his abililty to hold the ball.

there is only so much a tackler can do to move away and get on the with the game. Had McGuire and Sinfield tried too hard to move their arm, the ball would have been dislodged and a penalty given.

in both cases, the player in possession was making no attempt to get up and play the ball - therefore it should have been a penalty to the defending team.

I think the problem is that the defending players made no attempt to remove their arm. If you do and the ball comes out the ref could decide to award a penalty or knock on from a loose carry. If you make no attempt to remove your arm then he's got no choice.

Two points to this.

Firstly I've been in many a situation where I've been laid on my back with my arm trapped under someone I'd rather it wasn't. And dispite any size advantage in my favour it's neigh on impossible to get out of it. Particularly if you're trying not to wake the begger up. Sinfield in my opinion was stuffed either way.

Second I've no problem with a player doing whatever he can to win a playoff match. The fault is entirely due to the referee not being up to standard and failing to spot that one, plus about a dozen other incidents.

Are you about 3?

It's been going on since RL began, at all levels; clever players who use the tackler's tactic of shoving their arms in where they don't belong against them. I can't see anything in the RFL Laws that says it's illegal, which probably explains why I don't think I've ever seen it penalised and all the ref can do is tell them to get on with it (which they tend to do at amateur level), or penalise the tackler, because the simple fact is it's HIS responsibility to get away once the tackle is complete. I've done it myself and had penalties awards, and I've had it done to me.

Little Sam with his grip of iron on all these big tough RL forwards.

The issue is the naivity of the officials. Players are going to try things to gain an advantage and the officials are not switched on to work out what is gamesmanship and what isn't

What annoys me the most is that Sam Tomkins has been doing this all season and the ref's haven't picked up on it even though everybody else has. As has been said the tackler is in a no win position. The way the game is currently being reffed, tacklers have to slow the PTB down and so have to get hands on or around the ball to slow down the PTB and stop any potential offload. Every now and again that will lead to a hand being around the ball as the player in possession is going down. When Tomkins traps the tacklers hand the tackler can then do nothing else other than lay there and hope the ref uses some common sense, as if he attempts to move his arm or makes any kind of movement Tomkins will release the ball and 99% of times get a penalty for interference.

I have no problem with what Tomkins is doing, he's trying to do the best for his team. I do however have a big problem with the ref's and Stuart Cummings for not picking up on this over the season when its been so obvious.

It's Sam Tomkins.

He could take a dump on the centre spot and the RFL would nominate it for the Turner Prize.

Nah it'd mysteriously disappear, only to show up years later under Eddie Hemmings pillow.

Edited for accuracy.

Mine's more realistic.

It'll take more than a left foot step and a bad attitude to beat the Australians.

Hmmm. Bad attitude? I can see why using unconventional (but not illegal) tactics to gain an advantage might annoy people, but a bad attitude? He has a massive winning mentality, perhaps sometimes he's a little over-enthusiastic, but have to disagree with you there.

Compare that to Sinfield and his constant moaning, bickering and attempts to influence refs, and acts such as shaking the goalposts and surrounding the referee from the Leeds players - I know which I'd rather eliminate from the game.

As for the left-foot step, that's inexperience. I've said it since he broke into the first team - the key to his step is to only use it occasionally, and Sam needs to learn to release the ball more often. After 10 minutes Leeds knew he would probably step and wrapped him up every time.

Change Sinfield to Hanley and you may be on to something.

I actually thought first time that it was clever play. By the second time it was a bit annoying and I am a neutral.

Is there not an opportunity when they are trapped for the ball to be made 'dead' and the players untangled without it being a knock on or strip?

A whinos fan complaining about "dubious" tactics

















You couldn't make it up could you.

Did anyone else notice ST attempting to wrap his legs around a tackler (on more than one occasion), for a similar effect? Wearing yellow boots is perhaps not the most sensible option if you're going to adopt this tactic.

Its seems as though the guy being tackled has a free licence these days to do what they want:-
1) Clamping the tacklers arm
2) Elbowing the tackler in the head
3} Kicking out of the tackler.
4) Pushing the tackler out of the way before playing the ball.

The whole end of tackle/play the ball needs cleaning up, its just causing frustration to players and fans. What does Cummings actually do these days other than try to justify a referee's poor performance against these tactics.

By some Wigan 'fans' principles, young Sammy surely deserves a dislocated shoulder/ torn rotator cuff for this kind of play, no?

I'll admit I did not like what Tomkins did to get these penalties but saying that it is down to the refs to sort it out.
I hope Mr Cummings has a look at these two incidents.

Do you have anything useful to contribute to this thread? Or any thread for that matter?
Considering you used the word dubious and not me you must consider it dubious as well?
If so why shouldn't opposition fans want it to be sorted out?