Is it me or are we simply a mirror image of how FC played the game during his days at Shedingly?

E.g. Not really aggressive, workaday, a very occasional spark of something good but generally when faced with an aggressive opposite number would disappear from the game.

For me, we are the same as that, but on a full team basis (Elliot Kear apart IMO)

We may not have the most talented squad but there is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for ANY member of the current team to be dominated from minute zero to minute 80 like we currently are.

WE NEED TO BE MORE MONGREL FOR THE WHOLE 80 MINUTES!

We need to show no respect for any opposition players

We need to introduce a bit of needle and 'in your face' aggression.

Following Singleton's 'tackle' on Fakir our players seem to run for the stands after the Rhinos players ran in ... we need another Bernard Dwyer, Graeme Bradley, David Boyle etc type player... (remember Jon Scales ragging Gary Connolly into touch and beyond?)

Is it me or am I just still too upset and over reacting over the complete lack of any passion, fire, spirit last night?

FC has had 2 months of the season to instil some attitude into the players, but I fear the team will remain 'nice' throughout the season and we wave Super League goodbye ... unless we get a new coach soon!

Our two most aggressive forwards in Scrtuon and Carvell left during our ownership saga. We those two in the side we could probably hold our own with the majority of packs in SL. Obviously they're gone, Fakir should add some aggression as should Ferguson. We could definitely do with a couple more though and with some experience with it. The loans we have brought in have been fantastic but we need some experience and stability that an experienced permanent signing could bring.

Bateman, Whitehead and Sammut all had a bit of mongrel about them!

Wakefield fans commenting that Scruton is playing like he doesn't want to be there. Would we take him back if he wanted out? Can't see it personally, but thought I'd throw it out there for discussion.

I would take him back without a second thought. Not sure we would pay him what he was on before though.

Addy, O'Brien and Kear have a bit of Mongrel about them Pity the Forwards don't!

I would take Scruton back without a moments hesitation. The administrator's report does not seem to show any fees paid for Sammut or Scruton but I would expect Wakefield would not let him go for the same amount.
I disagree with Haworths conclusion that FC should be sacked. There is no way the players we have ( especially the pack ) can compete with the top teams and that is the hand Cummins has been given. It would be fairer to judge him harshly if we had not lost Carvell and Scruton.
The only forwards with the "mongrel" Haworth desires are Ferguson, Diskin and Fakir. The last named is clearly unfit, Diskin is injured and Ferguson cannot do it on his own.

We started with a big pack of Fakir Nas Ferguson Bridge and Donno. We conceded 20 points in that time. We're just looking for excuses and kop outs. The lack iof fire passion is down to the coach.

Can't help but agree with you ... the motivation of the team as a whole and players individually, the passion, commitment, strategies (attack & defence) come from FC and his coaching team.

The players now have a good deal of certainty and stability in terms of income ... they need to take a good long look in the mirror and decide whether they want to play Super League Rugby or not, if they decide they can't be really that bothered there is a door to walk through.

Fully get that the players and coaching team have been through a hell of a lot of s**t but there must come a time to dust yourself down, move on in your mind and make things happen on the pitch.

If we are picking matches to 'not really be bothered' last nights was not the night, the derby against our nearest and dearest rivals means so much to the fans and to see the players capitulate in the spiritless, passionless way hurt a lot of the fans around where I stood with my family.

Coaching team and players ... take a good look in the mirror and decide what you want out of life!

"mongrel" and size are not the same thing. Of that starting group I would put Fakir and Ferguson in the mongrel category. One is clearly unfit the other is not firing on all cylinders yet. In the Leeds starting 6 Lelulai, Singleton , Ablett and Delaney are all way more aggressive-- and showed it.
I remember a massive lad from Keighley . An ex international described him as feather by name , feather by nature.
The sad truth is that only a handful of our current squad would be challenging to make the 17 in any side in the current top 11 sides with a few more having a chance as development players.

It is just a shame that there is not a proven SL player with the ability to cause a bit of havoc currently out of favour at his side and plying his trade in the Championship......

The most obvious candidate, in the main problem area.

No brainer for me.

It's one thing that baffles me about pro RL players. You don't actually have to be 'hard' in the fighting sense to play hard, you just need to act it. I never saw Kevin Ward throw a punch in his career, and that was in the days of little or no VR. Amateur RL can be brutal & if you are going to give it out you certainly will get caught out eventually. But pro RL with every game having touchies & VR is a kindergarten in comparison. You virtually never see a stand up fight, virtually never see a deliberate punch to the jaw. Hookers & SHs are usually the cockiest & most aggressive players, but very rarely do those sort of players get a thumping. Not that they don't take a physical hammering - Rob Burrow - not overly physical but hard as nails; McIlorum - overly physical but never seen him beaten. My overriding worry of Cummins is he was too soft as a player & him telling a player to add some grunt to his game would be a bit laughable.

IMO,we need someone to put some fire in the bellies of our squad,a Peter Fox,a Frank Foster,you wouldn't think they are fighting for survival would you?I remember someone telling me back in the day they wanted to drop Frank Foster one week,but nobody dare tell him--lol.
Passion,Fire all missing at the moment.I don't think FC is the man to instil it either.
When I see Bateman in the Wigan Team that just murdered unbeaten Saints and Whitehead running in a hat trick it makes me sick in the stomach what's happened at Odsal,caused by the clowns who ran the club into the ground.Barstewards.
Anyway,remember when Brian Smith came for a short while?It was the start of a new exciting,rewarding era.We need something similar now imo.The question is WHO would you replace Cummins with?

Two choices for me. Brian Noble, who i think we would stay up with. Or Glen Morrison.

I do want to give Cummins time after showing loyalty, but what happened on Thursday was a travesty. Wigan could be hard to watch

But surely, no more laughable than Brian Mac or Paul Anderson telling a Leeds or Hudds back that he needs to work on his pace? When it comes down to it, every coach in the league is coaching only because he can't hack it on the paddock any more. The position that Cummins played, or the way he used to play it, is irrelevant - he's the boss and I don't particularly have him down as a shrinking violet.

Glen Morrison. Yes I think he is hard enough. He would do nicely.

Glen Morrison, as nicer guy as he seems, hasn't he got less coaching experience than FC?

Doing superb job at Dewsbury and no coincidence he was on short list for NZ job

You will see plenty Mongrel next season in the Championship .

...stood with their owners at the side of the pitch.

Jimmy Lowes - must be bored to death in RU.

It's not the same. Brian Mac & Anderson played to the limits of their talents, they ran as fast as they could, putting their bodies on the line. Which is different to my reservations about Cummins as a player. I played under numerous coaches, some you would give more for.

It comers down to basic man management to me TT, and yes, I agree there are managers you would 'pull out all the stops for', and probably some you maybe wouldn't do the 'extra mile' for.

I used to work in a place that would promote managers from the shop floor, and the general opinion amongst the 'troops' was that it was [i:s9kcmg40always[/i who got promoted. However, whilst that was occasionally thrown back at the manager when they asked for 'extra' effort, usually, the better man managers could, using only their personality, take the shop floor with them.

So, it depends much more on Cummins' management skills in his own particular work area, and this ability is of more importance in taking the players with him than how he played the game, imo.