So far we've seen new halfbacks and backs brought in for next season, they're very much needed but I do think our forwards need an injection of new blood too.

Many times this season I've been struck with how a forward pack can dictate the outcome of the game by the way they dominate in the collision in attack and defence. I think we've only really shown we can do this once (versus Hudders) so IMO we need to look at bringing in a couple of forwards that can add some aggression and fighting spirit.

A couple of seasoned forwards would do wonders for us. At present we've too many forwards who are failing to make an impact (hopefully this is down to injury and they'll be better next year).

Here's my summing up of our pack (not including hookers):

Lynch - Still our top metre maker by far. Guilty of trying to do too much at times, often I think due to the inability of others around him which can disrupt the team's pattern Won't be able to sustain this effort forever so need others to step up.

Kopczak - Has improved quite a bit but needs to work a bit harder getting the ball over the advantage line. Sometimes frustrates me when he tries the fancy ball handling stuff too much when a man his size should be making 8 or 9m a carry. Needs to play more like a front rower not a 18st stand off.

Hargreaves - Seems to try hard enough but just an honest plodder. Makes no impact really.

Scruton - Hope he recovers from his many injury setbacks as he's offered nothing much this year.

Elima - Good player but inconsistent and can be a liability with penalties.

Whitehead - Needs to sort out the basics in his game, at present misses too many tackles and gives away too many penalties. Has got obvious talent but needs to work harder. He's a long way from the finished article.

Sibbit - Another honest plodder, seems to struggle to make yards forward & never going to worry the opposition.

Langley - Seems to struggle with fitness. Not bad when he's in the side but that's increasingly rare. If he was coming to the end of a contract I'd want reassurances about his fitness before re-signing him.

Burgess - Offers genuine impact off the bench. Great going forward. Still a lot of rough edges but hope we can keep hold of him. Plenty of other clubs better and richer than us will be sniffing around.

Olbison - Steady but nothing special yet, does the basics well but doesn't offer any impact.

Donaldson - Seems to be unsure of his role. Doesn't hurt in defence and doesn't create in attack. Hopefully will be better with a full pre season but despite that I'm a bit sceptical whether he's going to be good enough.

Addy - Plenty of skill but has been played mainly out of position. If he's to progress I'd like to see him improve his defence.

I would agree with that and add that (as much as he's our best prop) Lynch takes too long to play the ball at times, we never seem to get a big roll on even after winning the collision.

Posted this in the "recruitment thread"


A top quality Loose Forward should be high on our list of priorities. Langley isn't a Loose Forward, Addy is playing Hooker more than anything, Donaldson may be the answer long term but we haven't had a Loose Forward since Mike Forshaw Left. Someone in the mould of Brad McKay is what we are lacking.....

Koppy's metres per carry is better than Andys, 7 compared to 6.6, but he does about 75% of the carries that Andy does. Tom is at about 8 m a carry but well down on tackles per game, but much higher missed tackle % than Nic Bryn Koppy and Andy. Nic and Jamies stats compared to last year show that their injuries have affected their performances.

So I agree, next year I would want to see Nic and Jamie stay fit and the better stats they will get from that, but I would also like to see two more forwards, one prop and one back row. Another good 2nd rower would help Elima, he has started to look fed up in the last couple of games, but on the other hand an exocet missile of a LF is needed as Spannerz says in the Foreshaw McKay mould. and a prop with attitude in the Bailey mould (no I am not suggesting Bailey himself, but that type).

sell langley. as big and imposing forward as him should put himself about more than he does yet hge is pretty much not existant on the field for us. when is the last time he put in big shot ? he is ment to be the most attacking forward ..yet he does nothing. get rid of him, play bryn at 13 and get a good angressive prop in who will make the meters and cause some real damage and disturbance in defensive lines. ryan ohara would have been a good aqusation but kr got there first...

Worth bearing in mind that no one had a clue Mike Forshaw would be one of our most influential players over the next six years when we rescued him from Saracens second XV in 1997. Pulling out pearls was what the Bulls were built on.

matt cook had the same potential....not nurtured by mcnamara

Matt Cook was a dual code international who looked like would be an outstanding player but just didn't make the final jump from the bench to regular first teamer. We had Steve Ferres at the same time, though not the junior 'superstar' that Matt was, he looked a great prospect but not all juniors make it, it's just a fact of life. There are loads of academy kids who don't come through, some have it and some don't, it may be the coaching or most likely not, if they're good enough they usually come through eventually, if not at their first club then at another.

was Steve related to Brett?

Uncle or summat IIRC?

Matt Cook was an overhyped young player. I also remember Matt James being talked up by senior officials at the club. I'm starting to think that any of our young players that get hyped up by club officials should be instantly disregarded as decent prospects!

Forshaw was a good signing as he'd learnt his trade as a young player in an excellent environment - that all conquering Wigan side. Same went for Scott Naylor. They might not have got in the 1st team very often but they got good habits. I do worry that some of our young players aren't getting the best introduction to 1st team rugby.

Anyway, are there any forwards that are out of contract or going cheap that come from clubs with a winning mentality? Failing that we may have to splash some cash, even if it's in short supply as our forwards are ill equipped to challenge for top 8 as they are.

hes a defensive LF, and forget the big shots, his tackle rate and his missed tackle % show how good he is at that. where has this "most attacking forward" line come from?

His metres per carry 6.3 this season (down from 6.8 last season, Bryns 5.9. His tackles per game 29, Bryn 21. so what you should be suggesting is get rid of [uBryn[/u and get a nasty prop in.

But that is assuming Jamie stays fit, and if I was going to get rid of Jamie it would be on fitness grounds as the intermittent nature of his injuries this season has inevitably affected his on field performance.

But I sincerely hope that he gets back to full fitness next season. he costs a lot less on the cap than a replacement of the same quality

Thats all well and good but lets compare the respective salary they will be both on. Is Langley pulling his weight in value for money terms that's my problem with Langley.

I fear that Donaldson will be one of those outstanding junior forwards that stops growing too soon. Lee Radford never lived up to his junior reputation because he stopped growing as soon as we signed him. He's still had a very good career because he's as hard as nails but just think how good he would have been if two inches taller and two stones heavier. Donaldson seems to me to be another Radford but without the toughness.

Addy seems a bit of a jack of all trades, master of none. Not sure what is best position is. Not really big enough for a back rower, not nippy enough for a hooker, not quick enough for a half back.

I really like Whitehead, think he's been held back a bit by the chaos that surrounds him. Would be outstanding if playing for one of the better, more consistent clubs.

Burgess obviously has massive potential but still very raw.

A fit Langley walks into the side, but he's really had a bad year with injuries. I do hope this isn't going to be par for the course with him now. If it is then I agree with Red and we should ask whether he's worth his place given what he earns and our apparent lack of money.

Hargreaves is just a body in the line, he's bog standard. When we're playing well he'll do a job but he's not the man to force an error or get us on the front foot when the side is struggling. I would say that if we'd kept George Burgess Bryn wouldn't get in the side now.

Matt James did have the potential to be very good but the god of junior development shattered his spirit and self belief.

He's not exactly broken any pots elsewhere though has he?

I assume you're on about Medley.

No our national coach. He was ready to give up all together was Matt.

Actually Steve [iwas[/i Brett! In my last post anyway. I was thinking about Brett but wrote Steve, who as Adey correctly identified as his uncle, who worked at Wakey when Brett moved there and in a previous life was a halfback for Bradford Northern a few years back, hence my mixing the names.

I thought as much. He's not going too badly though at Cas.

Ferres is a steady player and would be a useful squad player for us. He'd be ideal back up for Langley when he's out injured.

Ideally we'd sign two Glenn Morrison type players before next season starts.

in a way i hope the rumour about lynch going to cas is true, too much of a plodder these days

i was totally underwhelmed when he came back on for burgess early in the second half when we needed something a little bit different to get back in the game

It wouldn't surprise me to see Donaldson leaving in the next year or two. Only what I heard last night in the bar after the game but apparantly he had been chatting to a few of the fans and thinks he may have to move on as he is getting a bit disillusioned with it all. The guy has no real size to him at all yet when he does make the 17 he just seems to be used as a battering ram.

You can tell morale has been at rock bottom for ages now so I wouldn't be surprised if a few players are disillusioned. Thing is they can make it better if they take some responsibility for where they are and do something to change it. That said we do need an injection of quality to help bring on the young lads.

Tend to agree with you purely in terms of value for money. Thing to remember though is that 50k of langleys salary doesnt count on cap due to his long service. If we arent spending upto cap, and I doubt we are this year, then that isnt an issue. But if we are next year then we would only have langleys wage less 50k available to recruit a replacement.