Where 12 games in the new season whats people thoughts on the new players that were going to change the fortunes of the club.

Some good ones, a bit of garbage too.
Symptoms of Maccas reign still very evident at this club IMO, gonna take a while.

Seen as you asked my friend..

Diskin - impressed. Added extra oomph to the hooking role, and compliments L'Estrange well, despite being an extra leader
Ainscough - again, impressed. More so with his attitude and commitment than anything else.
Walker - mixed to be honest. Had his injury but not come back fully yet. Reserved judgement.
Ah Van - decent goalkicker, decent winger. Improvement on what we had in that position last year.
Hargreaves - chuffed. Extra dimension in the pack, and stood up well.
Elima - echo Hargreaves. Suitable replacement for Menzies, with age on his side. Machine.
Sibbit - poor, but if we get the luxury of a fit squad he won't be near the side.
Raynor - good workrate and effort, but not as impressive as Ainy.
Royston - been moved from pillar to post but done OK, had his best game tonight playing full-back for 80 minutes. See a future in him.
Herbert - despite peoples criticisms I think he's getting better week in, week out. Has potential, but slow-ish start.
Briggs - not seen enough (none of us have) to judge.

... wouldn't disagree with any of the above except I think Walker is improving (esp. defensively against Leeds)

Well first of all , we are not doing as well as the pre season hype promised and overall our signings aren't of good enough quality for us to push into the playoffs ( though i think we might sneak 7 or 8th ).

To rate individually:

Diskin - Good quality. Done better than i thought. though i will add he seemed a lot more lively first few weeks of season than he does now.
Ainscough - Seems to have great commitment and it's always good to see that, but is he good enough? Not fully sure.
Walker - Didn't expect a lot and so far have got what i expected. Even before his injury he didn't look that good at HKR after his return.
Ah Van - Good goal kicker with a casual style, but doesn't seem as good when under a bit of pressure to make the kick ( a lot of that could be based on that woeful effort against dragons today mind).
Hargreaves - Decent prop, does the job he was brought in to do.
Elima - Works hard, still not convinced about his attacking ability. I'd rather have Menzies for the year if i'm honest.
Sibbit - Garbage, pointless signing given the youngsters we have who can do just as good a job.
Raynor - I like the look of him, but he really doesn't have that class. I would have liked us to sign winger that can score from far out. He seems to make an offload that we never take advantage of, unfortunately it's usually in our own 20.
Royston - He's done well, considering the step up he's had to make. Never let us down, but never looked amazing either. Supports well.
Herbert - Average halfback. He's not bad, but he's not that good either.
Briggs - Not seen enough of him, though it seems we might never see that much of him. Feel a bit sorry for him as it seems he was only signed as we couldn't find a real quality stand off. I like many others was told we had signed Leon Pryce.

Agree with most of this.

I'd add:

Elima - complete machine in defence. Not seen the best of him in attack yet, but started to against Leeds, and as the side get to know each other over the next couple of seasons he'll get the ball in some better positions to do real damage.

Herbert - Has been getting plenty of stick, but recieved some praise aswell. He's not really a flashy halfback, but he's getting the try assists and thats what you want from a HB. (I think we do need a stand-off who attacks the line alot and offers support, as this is the bit where herbert is lacking)

Ah Van - He's no Les or TV - but he's hugely improved on our wing options last year, and I think he'll get better in time. Improved our goalkicking alot too, although he does have the odd poor one which he should nail over. (Although he can be forgiven for the penalty today, terrible conditions)

Agree with all the above. We need to get Ainy and Royston tied to new deals asap. I also think Walker played his best game since he came back from injury last night and if he stays like that I'd be happy with him to stay on. Hebert also has been getting better.

Only a few comments on some of the team

Elima – Works hard for short spells, can fall off tackles a fair bit
Sibbit – needs a lot of work not too impressed
Raynor – Ok not enough work and gets caught out of position to much for me, however I think he will improve a lot more than some
Royston - Average nothing bad but nothing outstanding
Herbert – Has got us out to the crap a few times, when he is on form he knows where the try line is.
Briggs - Not seen enough of him.

pretty much agree with all that. If I was being a bit harsh I'd say im a little disapointed in hargreaves so far. Think new 2 yr deals for ah van,ainscough,royston and herbert. Walker maybe. Dont think we need to retain raynor if we keep ainscough and ah van and halley/finnigan kick on. Unfortunately sibbit already signed up for next year, but would look to move him on if possible.

I'd give Royston & Ainscough new deals now. I think Walker & Ah Van have shown potential but haven't quite earned new contracts yet. And I haven't seen enough from Herbert or Raynor to warrant one and I think they need to continue with the improvement before we think about giving them another.

As far as the longer contract boys go, Sibbit has been very disappointing, Diskin & Hargreaves very much doing the job I expected of them. Briggs has had one decent and one very bad game, difficult to judge really. Elima has been fantastic IMO.

think problem is if wait too long then other clubs will come in for them. widnes in particular. In an ideal world we'd be able to give likes of herbert and ah van a bit longer before deciding but think we need to gamble a little, hence only the 2 yr deals. Of course a lot will depend on l'estrange and kearney re-signing or not as to how much cap space we have available and what positions we need to fill. Ideally if we could retain the ones above plus kearney and l'estrange and add another half, a strike and maybe a prop/big 2nd rower.

I see where you're coming from. I wouldn't be gutted to see Ah Van get a new deal, but I'm not convinced on him yet at all. He's perhaps shown enough to be worth the risk of giving him an extended deal. Herbert though I wouldn't actually be that bothered about. While I agree that he's improving, I don't think he's yet improved enough to take the risk of having him for longer than this season. If he got no better than he has been so far, would anyone really want to keep him?

We all want to give him a bit more time before judging (except those who don't want him to succeed obviously), but by the same token, I don't think you can take a risk of giving another contract to him when he hasn't shown enough yet, in such a pivotal position in the side.

It's a risk either way. But judging on the performances so far, I think I'd rather take the risk of losing him than the risk of having him signed up for too long if he's not good enough.

Who said Sibbitt has signed up for another year? Where did u hear that?
Last rumour was that he demanded to go on loan due to refusing to play with kids in u20's
Really can't believe he has been given another year??

Quote ="Bullsfab!"Who said Sibbitt has signed up for another year? Where did u hear that? Last rumour was that he demanded to go on loan due to refusing to play with kids in u20's Really can't believe he has been given another year??'" From when signed news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 990825.stm

Quote ="Bullsfab!"Who said Sibbitt has signed up for another year? Where did u hear that? Last rumour was that he demanded to go on loan due to refusing to play with kids in u20's Really can't believe he has been given another year??'" From when signed news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 990825.stm

Wow didn't realise he had penned a 2 year deal. Did think he did ok yesterday (not that we saw a lit of the first half due to dreadful sky coverage) not sure if he gave any penalties away? How do others think he did? Was stunned that he dropped donno tho and then what was the point of Bateman sitting out all of 2nd half. Koppy was at lose forward all 2nd half.

He seemed to go ok yesterday actually. I think Donno was rested rather than dropped. It's hard to back up inside a week and to be fair he's just come back from a long term injury. Not sure about the Bateman situation, didn't think he did too badly either

Difficult to judge Bateman in the first half. I was too busy getting updates about Shorpe and Swansea football clubs......

I also got the impression that Donaldson and Burgess were rested. Potter won't want to overload Burgess (or Olbi) and Donaldson isn't far back from a big injury so 2 games in 5 days is a big ask.

Ahhhhh.....Wrong Bateman! He's the left back for Shope

Interestingly, when they started giving out the Shorpe report before they'd even told us the latest score in Perpignan, the word I was thinking of to describe the people at Sky is also part of the word "Shorpe". Albeit it was the plural of the word I was thinking of.

Nope burgess definately injured - knee
Hope crossely cements his place as 4th interchange as he was overlooked for burgess in the last few games (can't quite understand why) crossely has always come before burgess in the pecking order IMO due to greater talent over tom's.
Donno wasn't rested he was dropped, he didn't do much wrong against Leeds to warrant being dropped but then again he didn't set the world alight either. If he was being rested he wouldn't have been 19th / 20th man and travelled to France as had there been a catoteophe of injuries he would have had to play. It will be interesting to see what team potter goes with against Warrington.

Haha! I couldn't possibly understand what that word would be!



According to Potter, he was ok with Bateman and there is more to come. This is what it says in the T&A

I couldn't assess how Bateman went due to the bloody sky coverage! Man was I an angry man during that first half of null coverage!

The reason we are no longer in the top 4 is because we have repeatedly replaced quality players with mediocre talent, with the odd exception. Admittedly, when you are winning titles and world champs, that's hard to do. However, if we want to get back to winning titles, we have to start to recruit quality, and the majority of the players in the above list do not fall into that category. We may not be able to compete legally with Warrington, but if we spend up to the full salary cap then i think we need to sign some real quality and experience in the backs to compliment the younger players.

Whilst i acknowledge that you need a strong squad to compete, as our injury list proves, i would be more inclined to try and spend our money on 2 or 3 signings of real quality (if we are able to attract them to a club in the bottom half of the table) and either keep some of the above players (mostly backs) as squad players, or not re-sign them and replace them with others. By next year some of our younger players will be ready to step up into a more senior role, either as squad players or members of the 17. If we are able to attract some real quality, then i see that as the start of being able to not only win games through the ability to unlock defences (which is one of our biggest problems this year) but also the start of being taken more seriously as a club again and being able to attract further star talent in subsequent years. Players do play for the money, but also enjoy being part of a winning environment. The question is, can we attract the star names now, given our current state.

My verdict on the above players for what it's worth:

Diskin - Good signing, has the ability to dominate, good pairing with Heath.
Ainscough - Unfortunately, our style of play, or lack of a ball distributing stand off, doesn't see our wingers get the ball enough, but when given the chance he looks good going forward, and knows where the line is. However, at times he looks out of his depth positionally on defence, and his size is an issue in that respect. I'd only keep him if better isn't available for similar money, but acknowledge that if he improves his defence he's an asset.
Raynor - Tries hard, and suffers too from lack of ball in space, but at his age i wouldn't retain him. Personally i would like to see Finnigan recalled before too long and given a chance to see whether or not he is good enough, or if we need to sign another winger.
Ah Van - Whilst i feel he has improved in recent weeks, (looks to have lost weight) i feel he isn't good enough. His lack of pace is alarming for a back, and defensively he is also suspect. Good near the line, but we need someone with more in their game than that. The Warriors wouldn't have let a 21 year old with talent go if he was going to be great and if you sign reserve grade players, you get reserve grade performers. He is not worth a quota spot for what he offers (we can find another kicker) and is not good enough to play centre, FB or stand off.
Herbert - Not good enough, wouldn't re-sign. ok, so he's improving slightly, and has some try assists, but again, the Raiders had no problem letting him go for a reason. He was worth the risk, we had few options, but if we want to climb the table we need better. His kicking game is poor, he is not vocal enough to organise, and he's not worth a quota spot.
Royston - I like Shad, has some great qualities, but ultimately, he probably isn't quite good enough due to his lack of pace. Let's be honest, if everyone is fit, he doesn't start, and doesn't get in the 17, as you don't really get a spot on the bench as a back. I'd be happy to keep him as a squad member if he is happy with that. His best position is FB, as he's a runner, and we have a better FB in Kearney (assuming he stays). A shame more of our other players don't have his support play skills!
Briggs - Like most people, we haven't seen enough, but the current situation is confusing. Perhaps there's more going on at training or behind the scenes than we know, (anyone got any inside info?). I'd like to see him get a run asap so we can make a judgement, but 6 is a position i'd be most inclined to spend big on and use a quota spot on signing some real quality!
Walker - average so far. Definitely not a centre, 2nd row squad member at best on current form, but potential to be good in that position. if a decision had to be made now, i'd let him go, as we have enough other back rowers (although could get into trouble with injuries)
Sibbit - not good enough, play him in the reserves, loan him out, or play him like we do now, if we are decimated by injuries, then let him go next year.
Elima - good signing, starting to hit some form, but would like to see more in attack.
Hargreaves - good signing.

Our priorities have to be to sign real quality at 6, 7, centre, possibly winger and re-sign Heath and BK (as a full back). If we can't do that i wouldn't blame either of those 2 for signing with a team further up the table and can only see current decline continuing.

Here's hoping for some good news before too long!

problem is there doesnt seem to be a glut of halfbacks available on market. Herbert isnt the greatest but he's solid enough and think he'll look better once he's got a proper standoff alongside him rather than kearney/sykes filling in. If we could replace him with leon then it would be an improvement (presuming southernwood/briggs switched to scrum half and leon at SO). replacing him with someone like ratchford though wouldnt be an improvement IMO, although it would free up the quota spot.

Even if herbert was retained as a backup half (and maybe tried at loose) it would give us more options when the inevitable injuries strike as I dont imagine he's on a massive wage.

Herbert would struggle in the pennine league.