After our defeat to Leeds Mick Potter said something about us getting fatigued but then finding energy right at the end of the game. The suggestion (I think) was that whilst we did tire there was a psychological element at play.

On Saturday night this was referred to by one of Clarke or Carney who said something like psychologically the Bradford players are used to losing. The last 15 minutes of each game so far has seen us concede a volley of points and score practically none. Are we mentally weak after the previous 2 years of regular losses?

Or are we not physically up to it? The real engine room of our team, the props have been somewhere between poor and average so far. Are we fatiguing because our big men aren't quite holding there own over 80 mins? Or is our use of the football in the absence of proper halves causing us to over work in defence causing tiredness late in games?

If we are to make the top 8 Potter has to get this sorted out. What should he do?

this is a new team so any kind of mentality from the past 2 years is surely out of the window?

i've also been concerned at the amount of points we've leaked late in the game. it's not the lack of half backs that's making us knock on causing more defence work.

I think that the fact we have lost players early in games so far (Langley + Chev and I understand Scruton has been carrying an ankle injury) that have seen us fatigue and coughing up stupid errors that or not needed which has put pressure on ourselves. I wouldn't say its to do with the fitness personally.

I think it's 6 of one half a dozen of the other.
The large clear out at the end of last year and the good feeling round the club will have helped the players improve the mental side of their game, but the capitulation to Leeds will have hurt.

The fact we've had players taken off injured with a large portion of the game to be played will have also had an effect on the physical side of things as a lack of bench depth will mean guys having to do longer stints on field and obviously fatigue will take the edge off a defence.

The lack of fit halves is more a contribution to why we had trouble controlling the game, which again lends itself back to the physicality aspect.

I'm sure Mick Potter is aware of where the work is required to improve the team. Once we can put out a full squad then I'm sure we'll see a different result from the team

I always wait for it, there'll come a key time when we may be on the line attacking, or receiving a kick off, or taking a pen, and all we really need to do is not do anything dumb to cough up possession, and I'll just KNOW that somebody is just gonna knock on on the first tackle, or give away a ridiculous pen, and just like clockwork, they do. It is this self-destruct button that the team can't seem to resist pressing.

Mind you, the knock-on/pen/pen/pen that let Leeds is was one spectacular shot in the foot even by our own high standards.

It's part and parcel of the unforced error syndrome from which we have for a long time suffered, just worse, as we can all now see it coming.

Our record is still only 3 wins from the last 17 games. IMO this undoubtedly still having effect on the squad when games get tight and the opposition starts making a come back. Hopefully we will tough out a few more wins and winning will become more of the norm again instead of losing.

as much as I hope you are right I think now, considering the injuries picked up this week, it will be a short while before this happens

I think a few of the players have got into the habit of losing unfortunately. This was cemented under McNamara and not helped by his policy of brining in players from clubs who'd already got that problem.

Hopefully Potter will manage to instill some much needed toughness and resilience under pressure. I can only remember two occasions last year (vs Wakey and vs Hull KR at home) when we looked comfortable going through the second half. The rest of the time we're playing with too much nervousness and impatience. That leads to errors which in turn put us on the back foot leading to fatigue and more errors.

Players need to accept than when mistakes come we just need to revert to "safety first" and stick to the gameplan rather than pushing the pass or holding on in defence too long. I happen to think many of our ills are from players trying too hard and doing things without thinking first. In short I think most of the problems are mental.

Clarke made a point last season about top sportsmen, when commenting on a defeat, more than not refer to the mental side not being right &, as such, RL needs to concentrate more on this apsect. Which I agree with.

I've recently been concerned with Clarke's mental side too so I agree.

I thought the thread title was referring to some of the posters we get on here, not a regurtitation of the same hypothesis' that seem to come round every year without fail!

No, not every year. I suspect you'll find it's only in years where we've consistently conceded lots of tries in the last 15 minutes of games that it felt prescient to discuss it.

Is this a poll?
Mental.

Whilst the mental side of things does have some bearing on what happens on the pitch (I suspect that precious few sides who go onto the pitch thinking they will lose actually go on to win, for instance) I'd suggest that many of the 'top sportsmen' ruminating on why they lost a game - against other top sportsmen - are mainly looking for any excuse, other than the obvious (and probably more accurate one), that the other side were better on the day.

That's pretty much right, I guess. The one thing which really bugs me is when we have a lead, a decent lead, yet we play like we're 15 points behind with ten minutes to go, whizzing the ball about as if we have to score on every play and then we finish up throwing a wild speculator and giving the ball away.

I'm not suggesting for a second that we 'shut up shop', just that we carry on as we had been doing earlier in the game. For me it's a decision making problem - is there a realistic chance that my off load will go to hand? - if yes then pass it, if not don't. It's not always a simple decision, I accept that, but we haven't been getting it right often enough.

So what is the reason they were better - mental or physical?

A bit of both I think.

I think they are tiring and maybe getting a second wind as they come through the other side. This will hopefully become less obvious when they reach full match fitness (in that the drop off mid game will be less obvious!) Back in the day when I used to do some running I'd be dead on my feet until I knew the end was coming up then I'd suddenly get a burst of energy... Now of course, I get the feeling of exhaustion before I get my trainers on...!

Mentally, I don't think its so much that the squad are used to losing, rather that they are trying too hard to win and not putting it up their jumpers! Or maybe they're not convinced that their defence is strong enough and would rather score more points than risk having to defend for a long spell! Personally I think they need to know when to put the ball into touch near their line so we can get our defence set up...

How do you coach players not to make errors? Seriously. There's a serious cost to sticking it up your jumper, and I do think a lot of passes decried as stupid would be lauded to high heaven had they come off. So how do you get a player to increase the percentage of passes they judge accurately as 'on' or 'off'? And how do get players to concentrate more so they don't knock on.

All the things you mention are mental decisions. Even pushing your body to physical exhaustion needs the mental strength to do it.

The mental side comes into any human activity TT, even getting out of bed means going through a decision making process, imo it's just that it can be over emphasised in sport, though it clearly has importance and it is often used as an excuse.

As bewaresheep said it's both, plus possibly they were more skilful and maybe had a bit more luck, better bounce of the ball and all that. In the macho world of pro sport I guess it's easier to say '[iour mental side wasn't quite right[/i' rather than admit you were outplayed. I suppose admitting you were outplayed might affect your mental attitude..............

In my heart I agree with you, but my head says not.