Would anyone on here agree that making the play-offs this year would effectively put the rubber stamp of approval on what will be the worst season in Bradford's SL history (unless, of course you win the GF!)?

It seems to me that finishing 8th somehow lets the management off the hook - they can always say 'but we had a run in the play-offs which was the minimum expectation at the start of the season'. However, a 9th place finish would hopefully prompt more radical changes at the club to improve the 1st team and attendances etc... Anyone agree?

You have already made steps to improve the 1st team though have you not?

I would hope the board are not naive enough to think that scraping into the last play-off spot is acceptable and that they allow that to paper over the cracks at Bradford.

There needs to be a vast improvement on field next season, regardless of if we make the play offs or how we then perform if we make it. That would still be my opinion even if we go all the way to OT and win in the GF and I think it should be the opinion of any right thinking Bradford fan

If we were going to make radical changes, presumably involving a change of coach, it would have been better to do it before we started recruiting for 2009, eg at about the time Wolves appointed Smith. It doesnt make sense to bring in a new coach once the club is committed to signing new players if the new coach has had no input into the recruitnment decisions.

Now that we've entrusted the current regime to do the recruiting it makes some sense to let them get on with it and see how they fare next season.

Scraping into the play offs is nothing to be shouted about, but I suppose it will give a bit of a boost of confidence.

Are you serious?

Some of us acknowledge that the team needs work and that we have had a lot of bad results earlier this year.

We could have jacked it all in about June and sacked everyone and just - I don't know - signed half the Keighley squad instead or something.

We could have let this season peter out and not bothered about season ticket sales for next season, while alienating the loyal fans who want to see that the club care about their standing in the game.
We could have just let up-their-own-ass leeds fans laugh themselves silly (not far for some) at our 12th place finish in the league.

Or

We could galvanise the team, get them playing for each other and the boys who are leaving.
Put in the extra effort to finish as well as possible, boosting season ticket sales for 2010.
Send out a signal to all that the club is strong and plans to get stronger still.


It's a no-brainer really.

or a very poor trolling attempt

I think you're missing my point Andrea. I'm not suggesting that Bradford should stop trying. I'm suggesting that making the play-offs could create a false sense of achievement and competence of the current regime in what has been a poor season by previous standards.

Any action that was going to be taken will already have been taken or put in place. As it stands, we have not made the play-offs, and won't unless two unrelated things - one outside of our control - happen. The club will doubtless have planned on the recent assumption that we will not. As will the main sponsor, who has extended the sponsorship to end 2011 despite the situation.

What changes do you think would take place if we finish outside the 8 compared to within it? Given the only people who can effect or influence the changes are the board and the main sponsors? The former will not see that there is any hook that they have been let off and, as I said, will doubtless have already decided what actions to take, and the latter - the largest by far anyway - has already demonstrated their confidence.

Either you've been away for the last few months or you are trolling if you don't think everyone associated with the club hasn't realised we've had a poor season allready. Numerous comments from the staff in the press have highlighted this. All fans know this. Steps have been taken and we're where we are now because of it.

Worst season in SL history equates to just the last few summer seasons. Going back into the clubs` history I can remember worse years than the last, in fact I can even remember years when we really did have something to moan about.

I think 1998 was worse than this losing at home to Leeds, getting smashed at Knowsley Road etc.

A playoff finish may paper over some cracks, but it's obvious that another year like this won't see a renewal in macca's contract next year.

This was probably the season that made a lot of fans realise ( including myself ) that our expectations are too high, and whilst we have gone downhill under Macca, it would have probably happened under anybody.

Thats a bit different to the vitriolic "Its all Macca's fault - Macca out" line that many on here, yourself included IIRC, were thumping out on here until quite recently?

Perhaps a change of heart considering nothing is going to be done about Macca. He's what we have. Might as well deal with it and support him until he is no longer with the club under whatever circumstances that may be.

Well, this is difficult to answer of course - apart from that they should be the same changes! As an outsider it is my perception that the only real lesson the club are taking from this season is to put greater emphasis on youth development - which seems an entirely wise move FWIW.

I guess is comes down to the coaching staff, which is partly a financial issue and to some degree out of the club's hands. Without re-hashing the McNamara in-out debate ad infinitum, the club do seem to have fallen by the wayside under his guidance. I'm not convinced that other coaches would have achieved the same - you only have to look at the results of Hudds, HKR, Wakefield and Cas this year who have similar squads to Bradford. I also would have thought that there are budding Morgans and Mattersons out there that Bradford would be able to employ relatively cheaply.

Ultimately I think it is often human nature to work harder when the chips are down, and to suddenly have a situation improved reduces the pressure on people and may reinforce ideas that original structures 'ain't broke' so don't need to be fixed - given the resources available etc!

We'll still have McNamara as coach next season regardless of what happens this season.

We finished 5th in 1998 which and our win/loss ration was much better than this season. We also had some very good performaces that season such as the victory at Headingley where we were superb and had a young scrum half starting who I would gladly swap for our current incumbant

They've been doing that since the regime change though. They had to, for the reasons they explained at the last Fans Forum. I think we are just...just now starting to see the first fruits of that. If they had only just changed the emphasis it would be several years yet before players started to break through>



It may do. There is certainly a general feeling here (I think) that, whatever you think of McNamara, his lieutenants are probably not the strongest of teams. But I feel sure that, as with 1998 and first-half 1995, when then history books come to be written we will learn that there was more to it than that. That's conjecture, btw - I don't actually have any info! Remember though that Macca's tenure coincided with the brakes on spending having to be applied very fast and very ruthlessly, and also one suggests a more strct application of the salary cap.

At the same time, we had limited youth prospects and had lost many of those who HAD already broken through - for reasons debated on here ad nauseum and where there remains a lack of consensus. This meant having to sign more expensive journeymen to plug the gaps.

To me, its still far from clear to what extent Macca has been hamstrung by all this, and to what extent it reflects on his own ability. Again, only the future history books will answer that.



Maybe. Guess the hard part is identifying them up front, cos its easy after the event. Indeed, although few on here would put any money on it, it still remains a possibility that we already have - just that its not yet shown in the performances. If we don't see a big improvement next year though, I guess the question will finally have been answered.

Hudds of course have the benefit of a wealthy owner, which amongst other things always helps in spreading the load off-field. As for Wakey and Cas...yes they've done really well. Had our current form been there a bit earlier in the season, we'd have been well ahead of them given how many games we so narrowly (and unforgiveably) lost.



Again maybe; when you read comments in Morro's blog "...we made a pact to play well at the back end of the year..." it does make you wonder what the hell pact they made EARLIER in the year? But the comments also suggest that the players knew it was down to them, same as they did in 2005. But I come back to what I said before, which is that the sudden late surge of form is hardly likely to affect or change any of the club's plans, which will surely have been made anyway and on the basis of us missing out?

Steve Mac is still a rookie coach, and using your analogy of Cas, Wakey and HKR this is their best season under their respective coaches. I for one didn't expect Macca to step into Nobby's shoes seamlessly. I agree this has been a very frustrating season but, I feel Steve has learnt a lot this year and I expect a vast improvement next year. It's easy to say his assistants haven't helped, and again Macca asked them to join him, but for me this is where change should be made, we need more SL experience in the backroom staff.

No he isn't six games short of four full seasons in charge shows he isn't a rookie coach how ever much you try to believe it.

Indeed. By that yardstick Brian McClennan is still a rookie coach - and he's already had a major series win over Australia and a SL GF. Admittedly with different resources at his disposal...

Have I dropped my state school teacher/private school teacher analogy on anyone yet? Results might seem to tell one story but you've not even begun to try and work out their relative abilities.

Another thing you should consider is that if Bulls were to make the play-offs then the cracks are clearly less substantial than they would have been had we finished in twelfth. If (if, if) Bulls do win their next two games, they most likely will have beaten every side in the league at least once, with the exception of Castleford (the fixtures against whom have been a story in themselves). Not a good season, but no longer a godawful one either.

You can say that again!

That will be interesting considering we have also lost to every team in Super League as well (albiet Catalan in the cup rather than the league)

Yeah, I was thinking that. Throw in our awful home record and you have a real headscratcher of a season.

And what do you reckon winning the SL Trophy from 8th place would do?