Seems to me to be a good comparison.

In the attempts of rooting out hypocrisy I wonder how many so-called Macca Backers think Gordon Brown should resign?

So Macca Backers...?

P.S. I think a job swap for a week would be amusing

Macca would deal with the economic crisis with ease by pumping money into OSV

I'm not a Macca Backer but there is a funny comparison, just who do Labour bring in to get them out of this mess? There isn't anyone who'd turn it around for them before the next General Election.

Alan Milbern = Ellery Hanley

It bugs me this, how exactly is the world economy Brown's fault? How is the corruption of MPs (from ALL parties) Brown's fault?

The tories are laughing, they would have been in exactly the same mess had they been in power, yet everyone blames Labour.

I thought of commenting on this but there is no guarantee that any replacement would do a better job. Anyway, you are not allowed to speculate unless you have a replacement lined up that....

a. Labour could attract.
b. Would want to go there.

You also have to consider that the Tories in particular have wealthier backgrounds and may be more able to tempt the potential replacement.

What people fail to realise is that Gordon Brown has done a lot of work, specifically in the the more closely fought constituencies mainly around the Cumbria region and there is always the thought that by replacing him, these Cumbrian Communities may suffer a great deal of dis-illusionment.

Gordon Brown's Labour are a work in progress and as he has only been in his position since the 27th June 2007, (less time than McNamara) then calls to replace him are surely knee-jerkery of the highest order?

I believe this is some of your best work

Many thanks.

I'm sure Gordon is heavily investing in youth as well.

The main reason we are in this mess - affected worse than most - is because over years of a so-called economic boom we failed to set anything aside for a rainy day - and especially to pay down debt. Individually, corporately and - most relevant to this point - governmentally. Instead, Brown went on a public spending binge which led to INCREASED borrowing in a time when borrowing should by all normal rules have been significantly reduced. Had it have been, and had Brown's policies as chancellor not encouraged increasing borrowing across the whole economy, we would have been far better-placed to weather this severe recession than we actually are.

Would the Tories have been in the same mess? Well, after the 1992/93 recession Ken Clarke increased taxes and reduced spending, and as a result the levels of borrowing and the budget deficit reduced dramatically. This meant a dramatically improved and improving economic situation was bequeathed to the incoming labour government. Brown won plaudits during their first term - by sticking to the Tories' spending plans! And guess what? Borrowing and the budget situation further improved. Unfortunately he then blew it by letting public spending rip in the second term and thereafter, and it was that that has meant we entered this severe recession far worse-placed than we should have been.

Its probably academic to wonder how different the Tories would have been, because they were a tired government well past their sell-by date and increasingly losing their legitimacy and moral authority. Clarke proved an exception in an increasingly-mediocre administration.

But yes I blame Labour, and so I expect will history, for the reasons I have said and a good few others too. And the Tories are definitely NOT laughing, cos whoever wins the next election will HAVE to increase taxes AND absolutely hammer public spending and the public sector generally. Everyone knows it; few beyond the likes of Vince Cable will admit it. Talk about a poisoned chalice? The most likely outcome right now is that the Tories will indeed win, will try and fix the mess (a year later than its should be) and become so unpopular for doing so that they will be ejected at the next election. Indeed, this on a lesser scale is what happened in 1997.

are there also parallels before the current incumbants??



Brian Noble -> Steve McNamara
His Tonyness -> Gordon Brown

ride the good times, spend spend spend, win win win - get out just as the roller coaster goes over the top and hand over the problems to the new guy.

Eddie's new coach -> David Cameron. End of thread?

Blimey a conservative accountant, who'd have thought it...

(P.S. Don't mention the Thatcherite de-regulation of the City, derivative markets, hedge funds, private equity, arbitrage and speculative bubble blowing and a financial regulation system that happily exchanged its elites with investment banks, with Tory and Labour politicians cheering them on from the sidelines and celebrating their 'wealth generation'. Leading to a financial disaster where despite the principle of 'moral hazard' those ideologues of the free market happily took billions of tax payers money to shore up their ruined institutions and at once illustrated the symbiotic relationship between state and capital. Still i suppose we all have to earn a living somehow...)

Too easy to jump to conclusions, my friend. Just because I damn Brown and Blair for the long-term damage they have done to this country, and Blair for his utter and complete self-interest (you'd never accuse Brown of that) it does not follow that I am an out-and-out Tory. You'd know that if you regularly frequented the Sin Bin, where - inter alia - I have stated I am no fan of Cameron - and I've been at a dinner where he was the principal speaker so I've seen the guy in action - and would be comfortable with a government of all talents containing the likes of e.g. Field, Hoey, Cable, Hague...

You'd also know that I agree entirely with your opinions of those financial "masters of the universe" scumbags who brought disaster on us all. And maybe this did all start with "Big Bang"; but Labour have had twelve years to remedy whatever was deemed to be wrong with the system, yet all Brown & co did was make it far far worse! they ALLOWED those scumbags the freedom to operate; "light touch"? Nice one, Gordon.

And starting with stripping the BoE of its powers to supervise the banking system in 1997 and transferring those powers to one of its many unelected unaccountable and utterly useless quangos - the FSA who completely and utterly failed to understand the very system they were supposed to be "regulating". And that's before they tried to outdo the Tories in cosying up to the financial sector, whose massive tax takes they were happy to trouser even though we can now see much of that tax was paid on illusory profits.

In short, Labour have had over a decade to fix all the things they told us in 1997 were wrong with the system that were all the fault of the big bad Tories. And their track record speaks for itself.

Including creating the environment where the hedge funds and the property companies and the derivatives traders and the banks and everyone else who created the huge speculative bubble were able to borrow and borrow and borrow - and run up the huge debts that our grandchildren and beyond will still be paying off.

Including allowing most of our infrastructure and industrial base to be sold off overseas - could you see the French or Germans, or the Americans, allowing that without a huge fight?

Including replacing common sense experienced supervision of the financial sector with useless useless bureaucratic w@nkers who did not have a clue what they were doing?

Including pouring more and more public money into ever-widening black holes for little if any visible return?

I could go on and on. And yes, I could lay a different raft of charges at the previous Tory administration's door - and have been seen to do just that.

So do me a favour and don't automatically ascribe to me views that I may well not hold?

Never thought you were a Tory, just a conservative, with a small 'c' you'll note...

Come the Revolutio my comrades!!!

Interesting. Am I to assume that if/when the Mac is replaced you will be looking to prove that changing the coach would make no difference? If so would this not conflict with your positive at all costs mantra

I don't think that's a fair representation of my posts. You call it a mantra, I call it a view informed by the wider picture, which does not change week by week, result by result.

If the club changes the coach, then there's not much I can do about it, obvo. And being a supporter of the club, I would hope for the best and certainly wouldn't be seeking to do down whoever the new coach was. I would not expect miracles and I would not be surprised if the disruption caused outweighed the benefits of this hypothetical superior coach we would have brought in. But unless there was a clear course of action I thought the club should take, I wouldn't be lobbying for change for its own sake. Coach X must stay, whoever he (or she) is...

Well said

[url=http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/4431373.Macca_pays_tribute_as_Lynch_signs_new_deal/McNamara echoes Brown...[/url

Brilliant

Do you think he was referencing this thread?