Does anybody else on here hope that the mini franchising round replaces Wakefield with Fev?

So should all the clubs who didn't get an A licence be involved in the franchising round? Just to make it fair?

Probably --but I am one who doesn't.. Despite some Trinity fans raising our hackles by misrepresenting the actual position I believe the majority of their fans (and fans of other clubs) do want us to stay. What Glover has done at Wakefield is remarkable and should point the way for many clubs . Three things stand out for me:
a 30% increase in crowds ,
improving the old stadium whilst still moving ahead with plans for a new ground
appointing Agar when most thought he had blown his chance at Hull
I'll be hoping that we win at Catalans and Wakey lose at Salford. But if that's not the case then I'll be hoping the Wildcats do well in the play--offs

That`s only because they will be playing Leeds most likely

Why would Omar Khan pay off the debts run up by others?

All this feeling sorry for the suppliers who have been shafted smells of people trying to take the moral high ground, in reality the suppliers traded with the Bulls as a business, anyone with an ounce of common sense would treat any sports team based buisness with caution and take out Trade Credit Insurance to cover for all enventualities. My company deals extensively with blue chip multi nationals and we take out cover on every contract.....

If we're talking of hope; I hope automatic one-up, one-down promotion and relegation between the leagues is introduced immediately - so that we can be rid of all this nonsense.

It does. And it rings especially hollow from supporters of clubs like Wakefield who have been there, done that. But you may well not have got an underwritten specific limit on the Bulls under a mainstream credit insurance policy, as their creditworthiness would probably have been too restricted.

The likes of Euler Hermes and Atradius (who I have dealt with through major policies for many years) will write individual limits on multinationals at will. And relatively cheaply too because the risks are generally low. You will find it far harder to get them to give you a limit on a business like the Bulls, especially if other clients of theirs have already grabbed and are sitting on what overall limit is available.

Not many small businesses are really in a position to take out credit insurance. The costs and the admin are too high, they often do not have a wide enough customer base to secure the standard "whole turnover" policy at reasonable cost, and it is devilishly difficult to stay within the parameters for not having to request a specific limit. The best many can hope for is a CPA policy, but then they so often blow their cover by not handing the debt over for collection when it falls outside the terms set out in the policy, or setting a limit when the available evidence suggests they should not have.

Don't think Wakey are involved in the mini franchising, isn't it just us and three Championship sides?

You what? I suggest anybody asked to provide services to any sports club should require cash up front.

no they shouldn't, but they will.

yes i am a Fax Fan, however i am not saying this in malice.

Your licence was up for debate again as soon as you entered admin. Now as the new Co you cant (in my opinion) rely on past attendances/honours to keep you in the top league.

all you put forward in your 'new' bid is speculative (like ours was last time around)

People in this thread have commented on the Bulls having the 'fanbase' and Fax simply "don't"

i put this question forward to you all. what would the attendances be at Odsal next season if you were downed to the Championship? all paying normal Championship prices (roughly £160 for a season ticket)

i realise this is SPECULATIVE but unfortunatly this is all we all have to go on.

Re the comments above that say suppliers should have insurance. That sounds like what a little scrote of a car thief said when asked how the car owner feels. "What's he worried about he's insured"

Do you live in the real world?

Have you tried asking a much bigger business for cash up front?

Likely response #1: "Well there are plenty more where you came from if you won't supply on credit and on our terms."

Likley response #2: "Fekk off you time-wasting ässhole."

You might as well advise any small business never to deal with any sports club.

If you think sports clubs are risky , try the double glazing industry

To be honest in the current climate if you were giving objective advice to a small business you would tell them to be careful trading with a sports clubs - especially if they were in the business of hosting web sites!

Indeed you would. ATEOTD its down to the commercial risk a small business is prepared to take. All too often it is like a tragic game of pass the parcel - you just hope and pray its not you left holding it when the music stops and it goes off...

Same as why, for example, I did not take up the offer of one of the multi-year season tickets.

And did you miss a couple of words out of the second part of your post?

you're soooo transparent sometimes !

Perhaps they should, but almost certainly they won't get the business, because there'll be another supplier who will offer credit terms. Of course, in the event of the debtor going tits, they can have a chortle, but even then they didn't get the profit on the business in the years before it went tits, and if like most sports clubs it doesn't go tits, they've lost a good customer.

It's essentially a business risk. Which is not to say I don't feel sorry for creditors affected - I've been there done that with other failed companies and it is not nice - but the Bulls aren't the first UK business to become insolvent.

If you can trade on a cash up front only basis, then great, and some do, but I'd guess the majority don't have the luxury of being able to restrict the people they do business with in that way.

I don't know what you mean?

But while we are dispensing valuable business consultancy advice I would also recommend the management of Website companys not to diversify into the management of sports clubs. Though on a serious note there clearly was at least one former director who did take a hit to the wallet as a result of the administration, I haven't seen the statement of affairs but assume that must have been one of the bigger trade creditors?

You might suppose that; I could not [ipossibly[/i comment...

To be fair it's not easy for people running companies when trade is hard to find.

I worked for a firm during the eighties, a firm which made textile equipment as its major money spinner, and it was struggling very badly as the industry contracted and the customer base simply closed down beneath us. The company diversified into other areas with partial success, but in reality was slowly bleeding from a thousand cuts in its core business.

The final straw was when they got a large order from China, from a source they'd dealt with previously, and went ahead and ordered the materials without waiting for a letter of credit, and I guess you can work out what happened when the order was cancelled after work had already started on it.

It was stupid. Everyone agreed it was stupid, and diabolical business practice, but desperate times called for desperate measures and anyway, without the Chinese contract the firm was most likely dead anyway. Small firms are just blown around in these sort of circumstances and sometimes it's difficult allocate 'blame', even though you know that blame has to be allocated.

What good work did the Bulls do at the start of SuperLeague? Bradford Northern copied marketing methods already used by Keighley. In 94/95 Bradford's average attendance was 4,593, Keighley 3,787 and Halifax 5,083. At the start of the Super League Bradford really grew that fan base 10k in 96, 15k in 98. Why couldn't Halifax do the same in 2 years if they won promotion? No other teams like Halifax, Leigh or Featherstone will ever have the opportunity to have the strongest supporter base in SL, the highest attendance, or become the biggest rivalries in the game if they are never given their chance to actually compete in the Super League. There are other teams whose supporters pledge blindly to try to save their club... in fact I have for my club and it didn't work but I'm still here supporting them, hoping my team will win the division again and this time genuinely have a chance of being promoted.

Do I truly believe that kicking Bradford out of the SL is in the interest of RL.... I don't know, they certainly deserve it, though it would be a shock to the league before attendances creep up again this sport could really use the money right now, alternatively the sport may regain some credibility as a proper sport (as it has none with most of my midland and southern colleagues), given their production of new RL talent I'll probably say they should stay in for now...

If Bradford were in the Championship wouldn't the supporters hope for their chance to play in the big leagues when teams make a squander their chance and can't manage themselves appropriately at such a level.

Featherstone deserve SL because of their consistently strong team, Fax deserve it for their all around decent club, Leigh have a reasonable team with good facilities. All could address their failings and be great in just a short time with SL size revenues and visibility...

Anyone see the teeny weeny flaw in his argument?

Remind me again what competition Halifax played in from the start of SL? Why the fekk did THEY not do what Bulls did?

I suppose "first mover advantage", i.e they had SL level team, position and visibilty then employed the marketing techniques to grow support. Halifax were too slow at employing effective marketing but yes I know they were in the super league at that time... I'm just saying there's nothing stopping them now to at least substantially grow support to something nearer that of Bradford.

so franchising, licensing and the salary cap were brought in to protect clubs from their directors, create a level playing field and ensure that clubs are run in a financially sound way.

It's not really done very well has it?

The fully professional era in rugby league only started in 1996 and as in football, the only real winners are the players and their agents!

get rid of the salary cap. let the rich owners buy success! re introduce promotion and relegation, and do away with "Super league contracts" that allowed relegated clubs to release players if they go down!

Yes, we might lose some players to other sports. Yes some clubs might go to the wall, or to the brink of hitting the wall.

But hasnt that happened in the last 16 years anyway? become a proper sport with a true sporting pathway to the top once more, and lets stop being a joke. and when you do this, ensure that, like in football, proper sporting penalties for financial irregularities/admins etc... and yes, that would include the BUlls losing their SL status, but also having a proper way back, just as RAngers have in scottish football.

Yeah just bring back Huey and Bluey eh?

TBH I think a lot of the razamatazz isn't worth diddly unless you have a competitive team on the field. Keighley had one in Div 2 back in the mid 90s. Had they played like Runcorn Highfield they wouldn't have attracted the fans. Same goes for the Bulls in SL.

As for Fax I remember them getting 8 or 9k back in the glory years under Anderson. With a bigger ground and some marketing with a good side there's no reason why they can't again, and good luck to them. I just would rather it not be at the expense of Bradford. Given that P&R is coming back in then Fax have a good chance of getting back in sooner rather than later.