Quit the trapping off, place a bet. Potter v Brian Mac, how much would you like to back up your flawed belief?

How can you judge this?

No-one can dispute the Rhinos have a better squad than us.

Lets see how much Brian improves Leeds and Potter improves Bradford? Leeds league position will go down next year, ours will go up.

There League position will go down from 4th?



Oooooo k.

I think Leeds will finish above Bradford anyway, theyve got a settled side with some quality players.

But yeah, Ill bet ya a £10 for gamblings sake.
What are we betting on though?

I will bet your tenner they won't finish lower than 4th.

Again, terrace fans are far too quickly dismissing his ability. This time next year will, I'm extremely confident, will substantiate this.

Who Leeds?

Ive never thought they would finish lower than 4th next season, so Im not accepting that.

How about whoever improves the teams 2010 finish by the most number of places?

i don't think the point that MacDermott is a popular dressing room figure is valid. McNamara was very popular in the dressing room during his time at the bulls wasn't he?

Doesn't stop you crying about MM though.

Not at all.

Moreover the whole assumption that we will have a positive transition and Leeds a negative one is a thoroughly flawed argument.

We have a new coach, they have a new coach. They have some players departing, we have some players departing. They have some new signings, we have some new signings. The subsequent, and inherently bizarre, conclusion drawn by some posters, that the Rhinos "ageing" golden generation is suddenly guaranteed to capitulate, new breed of youngsters not good enough but we are right on the money, seems to be an accepted mantra.

Conversely our situation will, without a shadow of a doubt, magically bring back the glory years. Our 32 year old winger, 31 year old second row, ex ageing "golden generation" hooker from said rivals (yes but he's the future now and he doesn't age), ex member of the golden generation Chev Walker recovering from an horrendous injury, a Championship full back, Kiwi nobody has heard of or seen and a second rower from the all conquering France team are apparently the future and a very clear indicator should anyone still have the audacity to suggest that our signings and team are inferior to those over at Headingley. All this managed by a 3 time Grand Final losing coach. Oh and our players remain stagnant in time and aren't susceptible to the vagaries of age unlike Leeds who's players age 3 times as quickly as anybody elses. Unless we have signed them. Oh and Steve Menzies playing for us at 36 (and nigh on 90% wishing to retain him for his 37th year) was just fine, because we're the Bulls and at Leeds he would have been 54 next year.

Or we could objectively assess it and suggest that we genuinely hope Leeds are on the slide, we're on the up blah blah blah. The safe money and I would suggest the bookies, is that we will do slightly better and Leeds will still if not more so, be amongst the favourites for the SL title.

And yes, we should have backed a British coach and moreover an ex Bulls legend over a bloke with the personality of Paul the Octupus and coaching record that is exceptionally underwhelming.

I hope Gurus_Beard is right about Leeds, although I'd edge towards Bullseye's vision of the next few years. Much depends on the next generation coming through, and how soon they are able to step up (if at all). They certainly do not seem to be as good as the crop of 2002-4, but with more established names ahead of them with a few years left in them we don't need a full team to come through right away.

As for the Bulls, I think Potter will make an improvement on McNamara, but the sheer number of changes to the squad will mean that improvement will have to be staggered over several seasons before you reclaim your top 4 credentials - perhaps no-one will disagree with this. Some of the signings are very good or involve players with undoubted potential, but I would be very surprised if all turn out to be outright successes.

I'm not sure Leeds will go down that far, if at all. Our much publicised poor start was down to the WCC, and without this distraction there is no reason we can start a lot better and finish higher, even maintaining the indifferent form we suffered most of last season. The ability to compete in big games, however, is where the challenge lies, and I'm not sure if the team have it in them to improve here, but I hope I'm wrong.

So Gurus_Beard with all your negativity did you get a season ticket!!!

Quit with the AP-isms already. JP & Sinfield would say that wouldn't they?



Balls. Neither would get in the Bulls side. Sure we have some decidedly average players in the side but I would venture it's the same at any club. There's a few at Leeds who wouldn't get in our first choice 17.



Not as well as we should have. But where have they finished in the table each year since he took over?

That's just been biased Bullseye. There is not one player in the Leeds first choice 17 that wouldn't walk into your side with absolute ease, and by any coach who was in position at the bulls.

You will see an improvement next year, that there will be no doubt. But all you really have is more depth. You are still full of average players, with just a couple of exceptions. You will still be in a battle for a top 8 spot, but I suspect you will achieve it next season, but with better performances throughout.

Please god tell me you're joking here. If not, would you please list what you consider the Leeds first choice 17? Presumably you've signed some players I wasn't aware of.

I think the Gurus_Beard persona is not long for this board. A good Bradford base of knowledge and a desire to cause trouble can only go so far!

Maybe so, but he talks more sense than most on here.

So Ian Kirke would "walk into the Bulls side with absolute ease".

Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

He may be as good as some outside our first choice, but there's no way he's better than our current 1st choice backrow.



Nowhere, nowhere at all have I said that the Bulls will overtake Leeds. However I do think we will improve on our finish this year. It won't take much. In fact I reckon we'll finish 8th with our current squad. If we sign some halfbacks then 6th isn't out of the question.

Leeds I think will not finish higher than 4th and may well struggle to get that high IMO.

.......and breath!



I don't think anyone with any credibility on here is predicting a return to the golden years for the Bulls just yet. But don't let me stop you exagerating!

As for a Leeds slide. It's already happening. Check out where Leeds finished this year and how they played in comparison with 07, 08 and 09.

As for your last paragraph, just because a bloke was a Bulls legend and has a personality doesn't make him a great coach. Otherwise why not recruit Robbie Paul or James Lowes? The record counts. Potter's achieved more in his career than McDermott has so far.

Sorry, but how many times was Worrincey playing for you last year?

Kirke is a 3 times winning GF player. How many of the bulls players can say that again? Kirke would walk into your side with ease.




Personally, I originally thought Leeds would struggle to make 6th. But now we have made some required changes, such as releasing Diskin who was hampering our play, and we have the impetus of a new coach. We won't be challenging for honours that's for sure, but 4th is back on the agenda for us.

You might well get 6th, but and I repeat, you will be challenging for 8th spot. I am sure it will be pretty close down there from 6th to 12th. And that is the group you will be in with the quality of players you have. You could just as easily finish 12th as finish 6th, which is why I said 8th. However, regardless of finishing position, I am sure your side will put in far better performances this year than last.

We're talking CURRENT team. With the CURRENT team, Worrincy is nowhere near first choice.

At least if you're going to make an argument, get your facts right.

I can't believe you say Kirke would walk into the Bulls current side and yet you have the audacity to accuse someone else of bias!

I applaud your optimisim but I think you are getting a bit carried away with it.

If i were you I'd try and be a bit more sensible in my predictions for the upcoming season or people might start thinking you are a bit of a joker.

Well done for picking the only one that wouldn't

So which back rowers in the bulls squad are you believing to be better than Kirke. Remember I am talking first choice 17 here. I can only think of Langley that would be a choice better than Kirke in the backrow, so enlighten me.

whitehead and elima would comfortably get in 17 ahead of kirke. they both blow him away in pretty much every stat. hth.