True, but HKR brought 270,000 fans, so that balances it out nicely.

It isn't a "knee jerk urge" at all.
I am merely stating fact.
If anything my postings generally are of a positive inclination.

If our first 3 home games had been Catalan, Harlequins and Celtic, with similar results, the title of the thread would have been something along the lines of "Bulls Average Lowest Since SL Began"

Certainly with the Hull game, the away support was soley responsible for keeping the gate 5 figure.

If you ask me, it's about time other clubs started swelling our gates as we have done for other SL clubs for years.

But so do KR fans. I've a tendency to stand over on the Rooley Lane end when these two come to town and KR fans are always vastly more on the pop side than Hudds fans. They usually fill the section all the way down where as Hudds tend to only fill about a 1/3

I must say that, yes it's nice to see an increase in crowds, however I agree with other posters who point out that having both Hull clubs visit will have skewd the figures slightly.

It seems to have been consigned to the memory hole that just a few years ago we were the opposition for most other SL clubs' rrecord attendances in the summer era. We know people will go given the right circumstances.

Let's look at the same fixtures for the teams we've played so far this year, see what we got last year and see if there up or down. That's a true indication of whether crowds are changing

I'd be interested to see the results

[code 2009 2008

KR 12,141 --> 9,741 & 10,353
HG 10,186 --> 10,124
FC 11,327 --> 9,511 & 9,181[/code

Watch this thread go dead quiet now...

It matters because you are speaking BULLSH!T. you can talk down Huddersfield as much as you want. But you are lying either that or you had left before the end of the game and did not see over 1000 Giants fans applauding our team at the end after getting our first win at Bradford in 40 years. It was the biggest following we had taken to Bradford in years and was our biggest away support of the season.

But dont worry i am sure if you keep putting down your rivals you can make yourself feel better particularly as you are a team on the way down whilst we are a team on the way up.

Good that they're up from last year.
However, there are other circumstances to consider
1. Weather
2. Relative success of the opponents

A useful comparison would be % of each set of supporters for those fixtures

The Hull game especially would be heavily skewed
I'd guesstimate a 70-30 split this year, 2008 probably nearer 90-10.

We also need to take into account, inter alia...

1. The state of the traffic
2. The state of the nation
3. Whether City were at home
4. Whether City were playing crap or not
5. The average number of speccies with a lurgy
6. The price of beer
7. The price of coal
8. What was on TV at the time
9. What was in the oven at the time
10.The average strength of hangovers being suffered
11.The number of speccies whose kids were playing sports that day
12.The number of speccies whose kids had nicked the car that day
.
.
.

3121.How many speccies could not go cos they did not have any clean underwear
3122. How many speccies could not go cos they had no underwear
3123. How many speccies were otherwise engaged removing someone else's underwear
3124. How many speccies were otherwise engaged in wearing someone else's underwear
.
.
.

Well come on now!

I am merely trying to point out that a higher %age of away fans have swelled our gates this year v's last

And the weather...as you said?

Look, your argument is very probably valid, and yes the commendable increase in FC and HKR fans was clear for all to ses. But my point is do we really need to spend so much time trying to find and emphasise the negatives in everything? Hell, its even afflicted a normally positive guy like you now! This is surely the corrosive effect of the Negative Tendency?

I'm just glad that its extra funds in the club's coffers.

Let's check out your plucked-out-of-thin-air "statistics", then.
Games vs Hull FC
22 Jun 2008 9,511 of which 90% Bulls = 8560
17 Aug 2008 9,181 of which 90% Bulls = 8262
15 Mar 2009 11,327 of which 70% Bulls = 7929

So you've conclusively proved, based on your overwhelmingly accurate straw man percentages, that the Bulls stayed away in droves. Clearly. The trend is an earthwards plummet. It's obvious. OK? And as all Hull fans will confirm, they brought only a measly 900 or so to each game last year. Agreed? But a mysterious extra 2,500 materialized this year. Wow, a 277% increase! QED.

But no, let's press on with the KR games. Bets to be sure, eh?

Games vs Hull KR
29 Jun 2008 9,741 (8766)
25 Aug 2008 10,353 (9317)
15 Feb 2009 12,141 (849icon_cool.gif

And yes, I am sure KR only brought 900-odd fans each game last year too. They would, I'm sure, agree with your figure. Whereas a mysterious extra 2,500 materialized this year. Bloody hell. A 250% increase!

So yes, you've conclusively proved, based on your overwhelmingly accurate straw man percentages, that the Bulls stayed away in droves, and the opposition fans miraculously made hugely unlikely increases in away support. It's so obvious. Our trend is an earthwards plummet. It's confirmed and indisputable.

Well, apart from the second game, that is, where our gate went up. No doubt, though, this was because on [ithat [/iday 30% of Hull KR fans attended, upping their previous 10% effort so as to provide you with some ammunition.

Games vs Huddersfield
16 Feb 2008 10,124
27 Feb 2009 10,186

Presumably these were ALL Hull fans so you've also established that [ino[/i Bulls fans went to either game. Seems accurate enough to me.

Look, they're decent enough gates. End of. The Hull games show an obvious increase, and yes some of it is due to some extra fans from Hull. WTF point is there to be made here? And WTF is the point of this sort of introverted, wrist-slitting navel gazing?

OK, OK. Every fscker in the ground was from Hull. They're [iall[/i from Hull. That do? Even for the Huddersfield match. THEY WERE ALL FROM HULL. Why, I'm from Hull, I now realise. The only speccies we ever get are [iall[/i from Hull. Happy now?

What do Treble Champs and Quadruple Wooden Spooners have in common? They each have only one way they can go...

Absolutely accept that. I know how successful you were in the SL era and how bad we used to be. I just get annoyed when LYING posts are put on about our fans wghen we took a very good following 4 figure support to yours this season.

Why does anyone get so hung up about numbers of away supporters?

I care about the amount of Bulls speccies because success on the pitch is inextricably linked with amount of support and vice versa, also the atmosphere is better playing away when there is a significant Bulls presence in the stands (I tend to see more games away because I now live the "wrong" side of the Pennines) ... do I really care that the Giants bring 100, 1,000 or 10,000 speccies to Odsal ... I'm rather thankful they don't bring huge numbers (makes getting away at the end of the game easier!!)

That NT is extremely contagious you know



I am not disputing for one second that the rise isn't a good thing, I was just objectively looking at the factors influencing it.

I hope the averagages continue to rise and we're up 11.9% at come the end of the season!

With which I agree with you.
Yes, of course it is good the gates were good, but as I have stated above, I was only looking to the possible reasons why.....I was never trying to cast a negative shadow over the whole thing.

And as for the figures given, you know they were only ever meant as a tool to demonstrate the point!

Again, lets hope every team brings a healthy following and our crowds are up by 12%+ plus come the year end.

End of discussion?

Factually incorrect. Never mind.

Not quite, mate. You said:

Yet if you'd checked, the gates weren't "kept" to 5 figures at all, last year we had the fixture twice, but neither was a 5 figure gate, they were 9.5K and 9.1K - yet on both occasions there was a healthy FC following included.

Your general point seemed to me that although we got both comparatively bumper increases against the Hull clubs, you were still suggesting, for reasons I can't fathom, that still in terms of BULLS fans, gates are down! It was pure negativity, based on nothing more than speculative huge alleged increases in away fans, in orders of magnitude, picked out of thin air. Even if you didn't intend it that way.

Where I would like to end the discussion is in praising those Bulls fans who have demonstrated "stickability", and praising those fans who make the effort to come to Odsal, from wherever, but from Hull in particular. The fact is that they have always come across from Hull in decent numbers, and they are good people too.

As for what our average may end up like, who knows, but unfortunately our last 3 home games are against teams with very low away followings in Harlequins, Salford and Celtic. Can I especially urge all those Hull fans who boost our home gates to please make a point of coming to those games

That was in reference to THIS years gate.

But anyway, lets move on!

[codeBulls vs Giants 10,186 --> Wigan vs Giants 11,670[/code
Not light years apart.

[urlhttp://hullfc.rlfans.com/leaguetable.php?show=attn[/url

provides all the info needed for this thread. interesting how leeds and wigan, two of the best supported clubs who have both had visits from other well supported clubs are showing a 6 and 10% drop in attendances respectively. side affect of credit crunch maybe? approx half the league showing a drop in attendances with the other half showing a rise, when to be honest I expected everyone to show a drop this year due to financial conditions.

Interesting stuff on that table, and regarding comments earlier about attendance for the same opposition the table shows the Bulls have a 15% increase on like for like opposition. (taking in account all the known variables in the universe as per Adeybull's list

) In fact attendance wise it is all up across the board on each of the measures. Hard to find negatives in the facts on that table....other than the league position of course



I also thought we'd see an overall drop this year, with away support dropping for most clubs. But that might not be the case so far, with clubs like Hudds showing impressive improvements. Thing is, I think its easier to significantly increase in percentage terms a low figure than it is to maintain or improve a high figure - which is why Leeds and Wigan are showing drops and Huddersfield and Celtic (

) are showing big rises.