Yes we agree it's a long term job, but hasn't it been a long term job now for five years.

Why are we not spending the full salary cap once again? Thought we were going to address weaknesses in the team? What are we waiting for? Us to be completely out of the playoffs?

Apart from Matt Diskin and possibly Olivier Elima, most of our signings were average and with something to prove. With Potter having the full cap to spend, i would have liked a bit more quality, obviously it depends on who's available and who wants to come to our club, but attracting top players from the NRL should'nt be too difficult, we have a top aussie manager who is well respected and big crowds back at the 3 times world champions club. The difference between us and the top clubs at the minute, is quality on the pitch. I admire St.Helens the most for it, whenever they lose a quality player, they always try push the boat out to bring equally gifted players in. When Lyon left they brought in Matt Gidley, Eastmond announced he was leaving, Saints then announced they'd captured Lance Hohiha. Graham and Puletua are off to the NRL, and there looking at Laffranchi, Waterhouse and Kite as possible replacements. I think the signings of Iestyn Harris and Matt Orford have knocked the boards confidance on who they bring in.

How many of the players who have been bloody good for this club looked like nothing players when they first came?

It honestly seems like some people think it's simply a case of signing players and suddenly we're invincible. To my mind Wire have had some of the best players in SL for the past 4 years yet have been average to good and lacked consistancy. Leeds had a lot of success not only due to having decent players but having players who have played together for a number of years and knew by instinct how their teammates played. Not every team will make the play offs and there are teams who have been growing and developing over the past 2-3 years whilst we were in freefall such as Cas and Hudderfield who are more likely to hit the ground running and be able to compete at the top than a team which was cuched together from whoever was available in the pre-season.

I think as a whole the new signings have played OK but as a team we've not played well. I questioned whether we were stronger in depth this year compared to last at the beginning of the season and the general concensus was that we were - I still don't believe that we have significantly more depth, especially in the halves and think the club have obviously struggled to find available players who were willing to play for a team who have been e for the past few years. The kids seem to be doing OK when they come in but they lack the experience we need when we're having to dig in for wins.

From what I recall, Ah Van, like Walker is just back from a long term injury and Raynor has just been let out of the nick! You can't expect them to be at their best straight away but as long as they continue to improve I'm happy.

Don't get me wrong - we've been shocking at times and it's bloody infuriating, but you can't judge the current team based on the last few years.

Could it be there's no one worth signing?

It's all very well saying "Why aren't we spending the full cap?" but the fact is, if there's no one to sign, you can't sign anyone.

Plus, I'd imagine the new deals for the young lads that are being pen'd this season are cutting into whatever we had spare on the cap

Yes, but for the last 4 years we've had someone in charge of the club who could only lead the club round in ever decreasing circles as they headed down the plug hole.

I'm sort of with you on this one, but it is a bit disappointing when you see saints signing the likes of Hohaia for next season, when we too have cap space and a quota spot.

Maybe we went in for Lance, offered the same amount of cash and it was a straight choice? Which team would you sign for?

Offer more cash. Though i can't say i'm overly bothered we missed out on him.

I'd be suprised if we ( or any other SL club ) did offer him a contract.

Read all the posts so far and I have a couple of things to say:

1. The re-building process takes time. Look at Wigan in 2006 - on the brink of relegation, new manager in Noble. Took a few years to build a steady squad. Then brought in some class in the likes of Barrett and Richards. Slowly built the squad and won the GF in 2010.

2. Looking at our record in the past 4 years no class players will want to come unless we pay big money. EG. Salford with Patten. Hohiao (forgive the spelling) has come from a place where theres been not much success. Saints (top 2 and GF finalists for god knows how many years) offer te same amount of money as NZ Warriors and also offered him a chance to be Scrum Half (a position he has wanted for a while).

3. If we don't get into the playoffs this year it isn't the end of the world. And if we do (hopefully we will) I doubt we'll make much of an impact unless they treat it as cup finals.

4. To get an extra positive out of this season we need to aim for Quarter Final/Semi Final spot in the Chalenge Cup.

to summarise so far: there are those that think that you can completely rebuild a team in 12 games with a still limited squad with a lot of injuries, and there are those that think that all will be well in the end, whenever that is.

there is a third way, and there are hints in the thread. As I said at the beginning of the season, it looks to me as if the club has been brought financially to its knees by Harris and Orford and a few other poor decisions, and Hood has at least taken the initiative with the season ticket deal etc to get things buzzing again, but most importantly get CASH into the club as soon as possible. Any chairman must be brilliant at PR (for the naive amongst you that means SPIN) and to say that there is room under the cap and it would be spent if needed to me translates into we cant pay up to the cap so theres no chance we will do unless something happens that gives us a bit spare, and anyway there are no players out there thanks to awford that want to come anyway.

so the only way to go is to fight our way up that league, and doesnt the club get more money the higher they finish in the league so getting as high as we can is important? And the only way to get up that league is purely heads down and tackle the **** out of anything that moves, forget anything fancy,for the rest of the season we need the Bulls to be the Stoke of Superleague, otherwise per previous post we will be 10th with no pulling power for any players that are going to build the squad further.

Firstly many say michael maguire was the turning point for Wigans recent surge to the top. Wigan had one bad year in and have always looked to sign quality players, given they have the money to do so. Not really a good example to compare to.

No class player has every come from NRL unless on big money. The trick is to sign the young uns with potential and hope they turn into a class player.

On the topic of lance. Just tell him he can play scrum half. It's easier to move him into another position once he's here. Wire did that with Michael monaghan i think. He came over cause he didn't wanna play hooker and wanted scrum half.

Michael McGuire was a turning point. But Nobles hard work got them from the foot of the table to playoff contenders then McGuire took it a step further. So it is a good example to compare with. Okay they have the money we e concept of how long it takes is there.

Yes we signed Orford on big money he buggered off so we signed a young one in Marc Herbert but oh people are slating him. Just wait and he will become good/great.

Exactly but Bulls don't have the brains to do that. And Lance will play SH next year.

St Helens lose Graham to NRL and are looking at Laffranchi & Waterhouse as replacements.

We lose Sam Burgess to the NRL and get Glenn Hall in to replace.



Can we swap boards with them?

The problem with the bulls is their defence - not their attack. They currently conced 32 points per game. if Potter listened to most of the comments on here, his game plan would have to be to score 36 points a game to ensure victory. Those who are critical of the attack are either relics from the 1980's who have no real concept modern attacking play, or they have a self interest in promoting players who have not been chosen.

If you ananlyse the replays you will see Bulls players not staying active once the ball has passed them (which sets them up for inside plays ), making very bad reads on dummy runners ( especially the left side defence ), failing to dominate the tackle therefore giving themselvs more time to get the defensive line set and in turn greater line speed. Once these stuctural issues are addressed along with the poor handling and silly penalties, then they will have greater possesion, better field position and an opposing defensive line that is retreating in front of them. Thats when good open attaking play starts to become evident.

St George are the Best team in the world, the best defensive team in the world and Wigan could not find a way through in the WCC. Try Telling Wayne Bennett defence isn't important. Great teams get their defence right first.

So, if you are looking for players who should not be retained start with the bad defenders first.

Only in so far as there's prize money paid out depending on playoff position. Finish outside playoffs and financially there's no difference between 9th and 14th as far as money from rfl goes. Obviously there's a knock on effect on finances from merchandise and ticket sales potentially dropping the following season too.

So, if the Bulls announce that they are also "looking at" Laffranchi, Waterhouse, as well as "looking at" Lockyer, Smith, and Uncle Tom Cobbley all will be viewed as spiffing? How does "looking at" work, then? It should suit us, cos it sounds pretty cheap.

The last bloke in charge couldn't pick a good player if he fell over one in the street despite apparently having the full cap to spend. That'd make any transition period last longer.

The current bloke can't turn it around overnight. It took him at least a season to make Catalans properly competitive.

Another one is Tony Smith's two runs at English clubs. At Leeds he took a team of runners up and turned them into champions and at Wire he took a group of superstars that never delivered and, so far, has got back to back Challenge Cups.

As for the club "looking at players"? Well ofc they are. I believe it was stated at one fans forum, that even though there's the anti tamper deadline you'll normally get agents touting their players to clubs at the start of the year. That's their job, to ensure their client has a club to play for next year. So IF a player is available then his agent will offer him round to clubs where he thinks he'll get the best deal for him. Which is another reason why it's sensible for chairmen to suggest they've got space to spend under the cap, after all, if an agent thinks he's more likely to get a good deal at club A rather than club B then that's where he's likely to recommend his client goes.

Thanks Guru for a bit of detail on the defensive issue that I have been on about for the last few weeks. seems to me that a lot of the posters on this blog are on the wrong one, they should be on a fantasy rugby league site where money and player availability is no issue. So in the real world, I absolutely agree with you, and thanks Mat on the next post in clarifying pay outs, that does make it even more important to keep the very recent improvements in defence going on for the rest of the season even if it means we win 9 games by just a few points. Assuming the funds are there, how do you attract a good experienced offensive/organising half back? If the defence is sorted by the end of the season, then a bit of ego massage would help the cash, as Potter can justifiably say to prospects that the defence is sorted out and the most important piece of the jigsaw is a half back to work off that platform in offence. Yes, lets walk, or rather tackle, before we run.

So far we've had two very bad performances and the rest have been pretty much what might have been expected at the start of the season. A bit disappointing that we didnt manage one "shock" victory against Wigan/Saints/Giants/Leeds.

As far as the new signings are concerned, I think we're getting what you might expect from the pool of players that are now our target market. Some decent performances but an awful lot of inconsistency. The players we've signed are available at a salary that we can afford because they have some talent but are unable to turn it on week in week out.

Despite our league position I have slightly more faith than this time last year, but until we can afford some genuine quality, or the younger players fulfill their potential, I cant see massive scope for improvement.

I would like to see Lionel Messi at scrum half.

This season was always going to be about reasonable performances at home and a good cup run. I think we signed a lot of players on one year contracts asking them to prove themselves. The fact that we signed so many always meant we had to be fortunate in having a lot of those gambles paying off. My worry is that we now have to replace most of them at the end of the year as they have not really impressed thus meaning next year will be another of transition making our seventh. This will then be followed by Potters departure after his two years meaning another coach and yet another transition year. After a while you have to start believing ypu are a mediocre club and no longer in transition.

The thing is, the club are in talks with OOC players and this should hopefully mean there'll be less of a player turn over this year.