Don't forget to deduct the VAT from any calculations the wannabe accountants

perform on here...

Also remember that some costs are variable in line with revenue (like turnstile and ground staff) so £1 loss of gate revenue does not mean £1 loss of profit, but rather less.

Offsetting that, fewer bodies means lower ancillary income, meaning the opposite.

Heath mentioned in passing that Geoff Evans had moved on, this might be common knowledge - if so it had slipped by me - but this may also have as big an effect on the team next year as Cummins becoming head coach. Whether that change of conditioner is for the good or not will remain to be seen.

I think there is more than a little truth in the idea of results being a big driver, but I suspect there is a new optimism surrounding the club right now which could prove to be even bigger.

One thing I desperately hope we've seen the end of, is this attitude of, "we're the big Bradford Bulls and we're above signing [ithis[/i player, or losing to [ithis[/i team, [ishould[/i be playing better, etc", a belief expressed on here many, many times. If we (a few of us) have lost this outdated, and never very nice, superiority complex, then the fans will hopefully be a little more forgiving than has been the case in recent years and we can ALL get behind the guys wearing the shirt. Ultimately, in this situation we really are 'all in it together', and we either sink or swim and I'd rather swim, even if the water gets a bit choppy.

And there are some bloody great sharks and other nasties circling round us too, in that water. And our best chance against those wakners is to stick pretty closely together. Any outliers will get picked off first.

You sound like a cost accountant



But in reality these costs are not fully variable as after a Huddersfield match when only a dozen away fans turned up you cannot say to the gatemen "sorry we didn't need you".

Indeed. Costs like that are semi-variables, and the cost driver for only part of the cost is attendance. There is a base number of staff required regardless, and the club (or the contractor) then assesses how many additional bodies are needed based on the club's estimate for the forthcoming gate. And for Huddersfield, remember you just need a man to keep an eye on the dog, and for HKR you need at least 50,000 turnstile keepers and stewards...

And I'm an everything-accountant (and a lot of other things), although yes I do find management reporting and costing far more interesting, and more beneficial to the business that annual financial reporting - which I have to do, but still detest with a passion because its a pile of poo.

Good piece on the Fans Forum on the T&A site www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/s ... ulls_fans/

Good piece on the Fans Forum on the T&A site www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/s ... ulls_fans/

One of the problems with the obsession tickets, both season and advance is that the effect it has had on the walk up crowd. This isn't just a Bulls problem but is more pronounced if your season ticket is discounted. People are reluctant to pay £20 for what the person stood next to them has paid £10 or less. According to an article I read about champagne

they over produced, discounted to sell the over production. When the price went back up sales collapsed as even the people who had previously paid full price stopped buying it.

Similarly with discount on away game tickets bought in advance. it's a significant disincentive to simply turn up as to all intents and purposes you have incurred a levy, rather than the pre-payer receiving a discount.

Whilst we might sell less season tickets I'd hope the walk up crowd returns in numbers.

I'll stay firmly on the fence thank you very much, but in general people are a little too quick to label others as 'negative' if they have the opinion that 7,500 season ticket holders is a bit of an ask.

You may disagree but it's hardly bristling with negativity is it? There is broad middle-ground between happy-clappy and woe-is-me.

I'm not sure if any of Lynch, Godwin, Hudson or Platt are available for picking again?

Was not talking about players.

Oh Dear Adey! TT got you that time!

Think Platty is available until the end of next season - unless you know different?

That will be the I'm not sure bit.

Oh yes, Hudson. Another good bit of business.

I am far from a pessimist, but I've been labelled as one.

Whilst we are all thrilled that Omar and Gerry have stopped our club from falling over a cliff, we need to temper this elation and stop it from making us blindly follow in the way that we did under Caisley and Hood.

Every other day I read things in the T&A and on here that make me feel that in OMar Khan and Gerry Sutcliffe we have two very dedicated and well meaning Bradfordian men who want the best for our City, and who will do all they can to bring success. This is all well and good, but only success on the field will bring in fans in the numbers that we need.

The genius of Peter Deakin would not have had the impact he did in 96-97 has we not beaten Leeds at the McAlpine in 1996 and reached Wembley! Even the timing in the season of the CC Final now works against this happening again.

7500 full price paying season ticket holders is an unrealistic target in a city like Bradford. People have less disposable income and need value for money. That cant be guaranteed, as in rugby terms, many people will judge how much value they get by how much/often we win! Some people might not like that, but it's an opinion I am entitled to.

One of the major issues about season tickets at Odsal now and always has been, is the fact that the ground has far too much capacity. There is absolutely no chance of not getting into the best games, therefore there is no desperate need to purchase a season ticket on the basis you will need one to actually get into the ground for the top 4/5 games per season. Capacity needs to be capped at c18,000. At the height of the Bulls' most succesful seasons, say 2003/2004, the absolute maximum income form ST sales was around £1M. If you consider the first (successful) Pledge achieved sales of c.£800K after several extremely bad seasons, with the benefit of the big story of a brand new coach, MP, who was admired by the fans, the generation of income from STs is far from easy. You can assume that OK and GS are looking at between £1M to £1.5M from ST sales working on the new average prices and their forecast for the number of buyers. We really need to get behind them and buy, buy, buy! But, they need to get some messages out there through mailshots to all fans, billboards, A frames, all social media, a door drop to the best post codes in Bradford and the surrounding areas where are current best fan base comes from, all the local media - tv, radio, print and lots of PR and players out meeting the fans in the community. Also OK needs to generate interest amongst the Asian community which is totally under represented at the Bulls.
Good luck to them!

Not sure I'm totally happy with the term 'pessimism', especially when it's thrown at people whom are merely being, what I'd term 'realistic'. We may well need fans who are 'realistic' and realise it's probably going to be a hard season. Supporting a team which is doing it's damnedest, but maybe not winning quite as much as the more optimistic might like, is just what the realistic will do - and without spitting the dummy and taking their bat home. I salute the realistic.

Bulliac.

Thats just my point. Aiming for 7500 sales and budgetting for are two very diifferent terms.


On the Asian fans thing. Omar became an associate director and was instrumental in City having Zesh Rehman as captain a couple of seasons ago. His intentions were (and still are as far as I am aware) to get more Asian kids interested in the club and supporting it! Without on field success it hasnt happened.

I drive through Manningham and Girlington everyday. Areas of our city that have been targetted by OK and City for years, and that are ethnically made up of a high Pakistani and Bangladeshi population. I see Man UTD, Chelsea, Real Madrid and Barcelons shirts in abundence. I see very few Asian people at Bradford City. This is really a chicken and egg thing! we need to be successful before we can afford success. The same would be the case of areas around Odsal that have a higher percentage of Asian population.

If Odsal staged a 20-20 cricket match featuring the best Indian and Pakistani talent, it would be full to the rafters. There is little interest in RL from most Asians, compared to other sports. getting Odsal used as a wedding venue, or as a meeting place is more realistic if you are targetting the Asian demographic.

I felt that was your major point, hence my support, 'cos to be honest I quite agree.

Targetting the Asian audience is clearly a no brainer, and I agree that success is the major driver, just as it would be for any new support, but ultimately it needs the new support to identify with the club and feel they have a stake in its success to keep the hard won fans interested. In this regard, to be honest, I see the wearing of shirts like Man U, Chelsea and Barça to be more a case of people buying popular, high profile leisurewear than any particular sign that they are keen on football, so I feel the lack of Asian fans at VP is more that they don't, for whatever reason, feel engaged with the club, or maybe the sport itself, rather than any feeling of they like football but won't go to City.

Maybe drawing them in with another sport first might work, to some extent, but just like the lads in the 'big name' shirts who don't turn up at VP, I suspect there is a general lack of engagement with the sports and that is going to be the hardest thing to change.

Quick question; if anyone (unlikely to be me), comes up with a good idea, who is the best person to get in touch with and what would be the best way?

Oh I don't know,............errm. perhaps contact Duffy or OK at the club? Via letter / email

I noticed this on the T&A website, the story itself doesn't really bother me but one line caught my attention; www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/n ... ___15_000/ "Iqbal is the nephew of new Bradford Bulls’ owner Omar Khan who, although the restaurant carries his name, does not own or run the restaurant."

I noticed this on the T&A website, the story itself doesn't really bother me but one line caught my attention; www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/n ... ___15_000/ "Iqbal is the nephew of new Bradford Bulls’ owner Omar Khan who, although the restaurant carries his name, does not own or run the restaurant."

Quote ="hindle xiii"I noticed this on the T&A website, the story itself doesn't really bother me but one line caught my attention; www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/n ... ___15_000/ "Iqbal is the nephew of new Bradford Bulls’ owner Omar Khan who, although the restaurant carries his name, does not own or run the restaurant."'" Perhaps he should change the Name to..............................Ratatouille!

Quote ="hindle xiii"I noticed this on the T&A website, the story itself doesn't really bother me but one line caught my attention; www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/n ... ___15_000/ "Iqbal is the nephew of new Bradford Bulls’ owner Omar Khan who, although the restaurant carries his name, does not own or run the restaurant."'" Perhaps he should change the Name to..............................Ratatouille!

It's an anomoly, or an anemone, either way it smells a bit fishy it me.

It could be an error on the part of the journalist, or not.