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| It's Bulls' payday too, IIRC....
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| UPDATE: Taken from T&A
Bradford Bulls rugby league club bosses say they will pay tens of thousands of pounds owed to the taxman.
Officials at HM Revenue and Customs today asked for the club to be wound up at a hearing in a Bankruptcy & Companies Court in London.
But a judge, Registrar Nicholas Briggs, said he would review the case on November 14 after a lawyer representing the club said money would be paid.
The judge heard there was a disagreement over how much the taxman was owed.
Tax officials say the club owes around £350,000 - club bosses say the debt is around £133,000.
Barrister Rowena Page told the judge that more than £100,000 had already been paid.
Outside court, club chairman Marc Green said debts would be cleared.
"I am grateful to my barrister for her ability," he said.
"It is not a comfortable position to be in."
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| That's a big bill, it seems unclear when the full amount would need to be found but I assume a fair chunk would need to be paid in the next 14 days?
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| Quote ="Bully_Boxer"That's a big bill, it seems unclear when the full amount would need to be found but I assume a fair chunk would need to be paid in the next 14 days?'"
suppose it depends what the final figure they've agreen on is. If its the 350k figure ( less 100k already paid) then it could take some finding. But it sounds like its a lot closer to 133k club thinks and it says they've already paid over 100k. Remaining amount would be in tens of thousands range mentioned in article.
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| Quote ="Bull Mania"UPDATE: Taken from T&A
Bradford Bulls rugby league club bosses say they will pay tens of thousands of pounds owed to the taxman.
Officials at HM Revenue and Customs today asked for the club to be wound up at a hearing in a Bankruptcy & Companies Court in London.
But a judge, Registrar Nicholas Briggs, said he would review the case on November 14 after a lawyer representing the club said money would be paid.
The judge heard there was a disagreement over how much the taxman was owed.
Tax officials say the club owes around £350,000 - club bosses say the debt is around £133,000.
Barrister Rowena Page told the judge that more than £100,000 had already been paid.
Outside court, club chairman Marc Green said debts would be cleared.
"I am grateful to my barrister for her ability," he said.
"It is not a comfortable position to be in."'"
As I said earlier, as a club with cash liquidity problems, paying an extra £200k which you don't believe you owe is not an option. Therefore, the club have taken the decision to pay some, if not all. This appears to have bought them some leniency in the matter and suggests that even the court are unsure if the amount demanded by HMRC is correct.
I'd guess that its somewhere in the middle.
Only problem is that it delays the issue getting sorted and puts yet more doubt in peoples minds. Still we live to fight enough day
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| Not that I advocate companies not paying tax, if we owe 250k then that's 250k more than Vodafone, Starbucks, Amazon, etc pay between them. Why don't THEY get winding ups? Oh, sorry, I forgot, they are so big, they don't actually have to pay a penny, by gentlemens' agreement.
Back to the petition, it seems HMRC couldn't prove the amount claimed, cos if they had, HMRC would've got their order.
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| Is there no information about the actual dispute? What are these amounts in relation to?
VAT? Corp tax? NIC? I'd love to know the cases both sides are putting forward.
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| I'm just guessing when i say this, but i expect this dept to be old, and they keep paying little bits to keep HMRC happy and they have no decided they have had enough and want the lot.
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| Quote ="Nothus"Is there no information about the actual dispute? What are these amounts in relation to?
VAT? Corp tax? NIC? I'd love to know the cases both sides are putting forward.'"
I seem to remember when this first came up there was an article on the Bulls site in which they said it was a dispute over VAT? Presumably if so, it would be over whether or not something is liable to VAT or zero rated.
Perhaps the Judge has said that if we can pay up to what we think is due (the £133k) then he'll stay proceedings while we dispute, but if we can't then there would be no point and he'll wind us up anyway? That would make sense to me but it's pure speculation.
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| Pretty simple really. Green deducts Tax and NI from players and staff wages (when he pays them) and this should be paid to HMRC in a timely manner. Unfortunately for Bulls fans it looks like this isn't happening and it seems to be a pattern of how this guy runs his businesses.
Good luck to the club in getting through this, no fault of the loyal fans who keep getting kicked.
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| Quote ="el red"Pretty simple really. Green deducts Tax and NI from players and staff wages (when he pays them) and this should be paid to HMRC in a timely manner. Unfortunately for Bulls fans it looks like this isn't happening and it seems to be a pattern of how this guy runs his businesses.
Good luck to the club in getting through this, no fault of the loyal fans who keep getting kicked.'"
That is a big assumption presented as a " simple" fact.
PAYE tax and NI are rarely (if ever) taxes which are disputed. The tax and NI due is based on the wages/ income paid. And that amount is a matter of record between the employer and HMRC. That information would have been disclosed to the court/ Judge.
It seems clear that there is a dispute. So to me it is far more likely that VAT is the tax in question.
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| Quote ="woolly07"Come on FA. You really do like to put people down at every opportunity.
It is possible to explain things without appearing all high and mighty.
That last line is what I mean. Was that needed. I expect that from teenagers not a wise, older person.
You write very good points but there is no need to pick apart every point to get one over someone.'"
Not been on here for a while and come along for a look.
Guess what?
Bradford are in financial trouble and FA is condescending someone.
Groundhog day.
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| How can someone get the figures so wrong. Where do we find the money from now?
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| Best case scenario - £30k is about 110 season tickets...
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| I think Bullinenemyland has summed the why's and wherefores of this case in plenty of posts before.
This is about VAT from what I know and a dispute over what is due. Not NI. If it was that they'd have no sympathy from me.
Obvs we've come to some sort of arrangement pending further agreement in the future. Storm in a teacup.
What happened today in the other winding up orders that being read for Salford, Fev, Sheffield and Co?
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| Quote ="mystic eddie"Not been on here for a while and come along for a look.
Guess what?
Bradford are in financial trouble and FA is condescending someone.
Groundhog day.'"
If you'd paid more attention in class, you'd know that it isn't possible to "condescend" someone
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| Quote ="Bullseye"I think Bullinenemyland has summed the why's and wherefores of this case in plenty of posts before.
This is about VAT from what I know and a dispute over what is due. Not NI. If it was that they'd have no sympathy from me.
Obvs we've come to some sort of arrangement pending further agreement in the future. Storm in a teacup.
What happened today in the other winding up orders that being read for Salford, Fev, Sheffield and Co?'"
Can't find anything about the other WUPs, although checking The Gazette, the last recorded WUP against Fev was dismissed in September.
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"If you'd paid more attention in class, you'd know that it isn't possible to "condescend" someone
'"
But is it possible to intransitive someone?
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| Quote ="Mr Dog"Can't find anything about the other WUPs, although checking The Gazette, the last recorded WUP against Fev was dismissed in September.'"
See below.
Quote ="Duckman"[urlhttps://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/court-lists/list-companies-winding-up[/url
The court seems quite busy today, 201 companies to get through. As well as ourselves, scanning down the Companies Court Winding Up List, it seems its an RFL day out; we're up early doors and then we have some other RFL clubs, maybe its a job lot type of thing?
31. CR-2016-003939 BRADFORD BULLS NORTHERN LIMITED
108. CR-2016-005429 Salford City Reds Limited
131. CR-2016-005496 OLDHAM RUGBY LEAGUE FOOTBALL CLUB (1997) LIMITED
172. CR-2016-005576 FEATHERSTONE ROVERS RUGBY LEAGUE FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED
177. CR-2016-005582 SHEFFIELD EAGLES 2000 LIMITED
#everyminutematters....in court 17.'"
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| Quote ="Bullseye"See below.
'"
Yes, I've seen that but The Gazette's last entry for Fev is the dismissal of a WUP on 14th Sept. See here [urlhttps://www.thegazette.co.uk/insolvency/notice?sort-by=latest-date&text=featherstone+rovers&categorycode=G205010000+G206030000&location-distance-1=1&service=insolvency&numberOfLocationSearches=1&results-page-size=10[/url The last Oldham WUP was dismissed in Nov 2014 and there are no results for a search on Salford City Reds. Your WUP, and that of Sheffield, come up when searched for.
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| Quote ="Mr Dog"Yes, I've seen that but The Gazette's last entry for Fev is the dismissal of a WUP on 14th Sept. See here [urlhttps://www.thegazette.co.uk/insolvency/notice?sort-by=latest-date&text=featherstone+rovers&categorycode=G205010000+G206030000&location-distance-1=1&service=insolvency&numberOfLocationSearches=1&results-page-size=10[/url The last Oldham WUP was dismissed in Nov 2014 and there are no results for a search on Salford City Reds. Your WUP, and that of Sheffield, come up when searched for.'"
Pretty sure that is not the company name for Salford. You know what Marwan is like for 'a company here, a dormant company there'. Seriously though I think there is a different name for the Salford Red Devils
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| There are only 2 Salford City Reds companies
1) Salford City Reds Ltd - dissolved January 2014
2) SALFORD CITY REDS (2013) LIMITED
Company number 08371113
directors Andrew Chalmers and Marwan Badea Koukash
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| There is one shareholder of the 1000 SRD shares, Euromatech Skills Academy. The owner is Mr Koukash and it is another dormant company which appears to have recently avoided being struck off. Oh what a tangled web.
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| Quote ="RickyF1"How can someone get the figures so wrong. Where do we find the money from now?'"
You could send an email to Derek Beaumont and ask nice?
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| Well no sign of overtures to any would be investors or on progress regarding ownership of the Stadium.Would be nice to be informed of unfinished business certainly re the latter.
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