sell langley. as big and imposing forward as him should put himself about more than he does yet hge is pretty much not existant on the field for us. when is the last time he put in big shot ? he is ment to be the most attacking forward ..yet he does nothing. get rid of him, play bryn at 13 and get a good angressive prop in who will make the meters and cause some real damage and disturbance in defensive lines. ryan ohara would have been a good aqusation but kr got there first...

Worth bearing in mind that no one had a clue Mike Forshaw would be one of our most influential players over the next six years when we rescued him from Saracens second XV in 1997. Pulling out pearls was what the Bulls were built on.

matt cook had the same potential....not nurtured by mcnamara

Matt Cook was a dual code international who looked like would be an outstanding player but just didn't make the final jump from the bench to regular first teamer. We had Steve Ferres at the same time, though not the junior 'superstar' that Matt was, he looked a great prospect but not all juniors make it, it's just a fact of life. There are loads of academy kids who don't come through, some have it and some don't, it may be the coaching or most likely not, if they're good enough they usually come through eventually, if not at their first club then at another.

was Steve related to Brett?

Uncle or summat IIRC?

Matt Cook was an overhyped young player. I also remember Matt James being talked up by senior officials at the club. I'm starting to think that any of our young players that get hyped up by club officials should be instantly disregarded as decent prospects!

Forshaw was a good signing as he'd learnt his trade as a young player in an excellent environment - that all conquering Wigan side. Same went for Scott Naylor. They might not have got in the 1st team very often but they got good habits. I do worry that some of our young players aren't getting the best introduction to 1st team rugby.

Anyway, are there any forwards that are out of contract or going cheap that come from clubs with a winning mentality? Failing that we may have to splash some cash, even if it's in short supply as our forwards are ill equipped to challenge for top 8 as they are.

hes a defensive LF, and forget the big shots, his tackle rate and his missed tackle % show how good he is at that. where has this "most attacking forward" line come from?

His metres per carry 6.3 this season (down from 6.8 last season, Bryns 5.9. His tackles per game 29, Bryn 21. so what you should be suggesting is get rid of [uBryn[/u and get a nasty prop in.

But that is assuming Jamie stays fit, and if I was going to get rid of Jamie it would be on fitness grounds as the intermittent nature of his injuries this season has inevitably affected his on field performance.

But I sincerely hope that he gets back to full fitness next season. he costs a lot less on the cap than a replacement of the same quality

Thats all well and good but lets compare the respective salary they will be both on. Is Langley pulling his weight in value for money terms that's my problem with Langley.

I fear that Donaldson will be one of those outstanding junior forwards that stops growing too soon. Lee Radford never lived up to his junior reputation because he stopped growing as soon as we signed him. He's still had a very good career because he's as hard as nails but just think how good he would have been if two inches taller and two stones heavier. Donaldson seems to me to be another Radford but without the toughness.

Addy seems a bit of a jack of all trades, master of none. Not sure what is best position is. Not really big enough for a back rower, not nippy enough for a hooker, not quick enough for a half back.

I really like Whitehead, think he's been held back a bit by the chaos that surrounds him. Would be outstanding if playing for one of the better, more consistent clubs.

Burgess obviously has massive potential but still very raw.

A fit Langley walks into the side, but he's really had a bad year with injuries. I do hope this isn't going to be par for the course with him now. If it is then I agree with Red and we should ask whether he's worth his place given what he earns and our apparent lack of money.

Hargreaves is just a body in the line, he's bog standard. When we're playing well he'll do a job but he's not the man to force an error or get us on the front foot when the side is struggling. I would say that if we'd kept George Burgess Bryn wouldn't get in the side now.

Matt James did have the potential to be very good but the god of junior development shattered his spirit and self belief.

He's not exactly broken any pots elsewhere though has he?

I assume you're on about Medley.

No our national coach. He was ready to give up all together was Matt.

Actually Steve [iwas[/i Brett! In my last post anyway. I was thinking about Brett but wrote Steve, who as Adey correctly identified as his uncle, who worked at Wakey when Brett moved there and in a previous life was a halfback for Bradford Northern a few years back, hence my mixing the names.

I thought as much. He's not going too badly though at Cas.

Ferres is a steady player and would be a useful squad player for us. He'd be ideal back up for Langley when he's out injured.

Ideally we'd sign two Glenn Morrison type players before next season starts.

in a way i hope the rumour about lynch going to cas is true, too much of a plodder these days

i was totally underwhelmed when he came back on for burgess early in the second half when we needed something a little bit different to get back in the game

It wouldn't surprise me to see Donaldson leaving in the next year or two. Only what I heard last night in the bar after the game but apparantly he had been chatting to a few of the fans and thinks he may have to move on as he is getting a bit disillusioned with it all. The guy has no real size to him at all yet when he does make the 17 he just seems to be used as a battering ram.

You can tell morale has been at rock bottom for ages now so I wouldn't be surprised if a few players are disillusioned. Thing is they can make it better if they take some responsibility for where they are and do something to change it. That said we do need an injection of quality to help bring on the young lads.

Tend to agree with you purely in terms of value for money. Thing to remember though is that 50k of langleys salary doesnt count on cap due to his long service. If we arent spending upto cap, and I doubt we are this year, then that isnt an issue. But if we are next year then we would only have langleys wage less 50k available to recruit a replacement.

Agreed that on field role models for the younger players would be great but the problem I see is that there are no generals on the field to instuct/chivvy/bully/organise those players into the roles and positions they should play as a given game develops.
All well and good to coach in training against theoretical opposition tactics but that's only the first step in development.
I no longer see anyone taking charge of tactics, nor any players visually or verbally communicating between themselves.
Not least I've not seen any player with a real fire and demonstratively exhorting his fellow players to greater efforts.
Whatever the reasons for their departure, the failure to retain Morrison and Menzies may now be viewed as much more than a loss of their undoubted individual performances as their capabilities to organise within their sphere of play and motivate in general. Their attitude and experience has been a loss we have not overcome.

We should be so lucky!!

The 50k salary cap exemption is irrelevant. If he's on say 150K a year that's still 100k a year that's counting on the cap and can we say we are getting value for that i don't believe we are.

Come on people this is the same pack that destroyed the great Giants pack.