Can anyone think of a very large city quite nearby where the football and RL fans have pretty much zero animosity and wish one another well? An anagram of Ledes.

What it must be like for everyone in the city to pull together and lend one another their support unlike the absolute muppets in Halifax, Oldham, Wigan, Bradford and Hull to name just a few. I must say the sort of petty mean-spirited jealousy you will witness in any conversation between the two sets of fans really p1sses me off. Any Bull fans that slag off City or visa versa should be roundly pilloried from their fellow fans for being a total d1ck.

So there!

That's a very interesting & valid point. Having worked in Leeds for over 2 years I would say most people have an interest &/or support for the Rhinos, especially older ones; I can't say I have ever heard anyone from Leeds slagging them off. There is an obvious renewed interest in LUFC but I knew more people at Bradford who were passionate supporters of LUFC. Again I cannot remember anyone dissing them, more a general disinterest in football itself.

As a traitor who was born in Leeds and has always lived in the city I was largely unaware growing up that football and Rugby fans in other places had such a bee in their bonnet about one another. Theres always some contrived sense of injustice that they use as justification rather than just saying "I don't like X but I'm not sure why".

Difference in Leeds compared to Bradford is that niether sport is seen as a threat to the other, and neither sport is cr@pping themselves over whether they can afford to stay in/develop their stadium without dragging the other sport in to share.

I thought about that, but there must have been a time when you were both successful in the not too distant, but still hated each other?

there was applause at Odsal when City got promotion to the premier league IIRC.

I sneaked out of work early to go see the open topped bus on gordon terrace in saltaire

The animosity between Bulls and City, to me, seems pretty low... well compared to the animosity between Latics and Warriors fans in Wigan. They seem to hate each other.

That said, I'm a Leeds United fan (yeah, sorry... but I use the word fan losely, I haven't been to a game for years and I'm much more objective in my view of football than rugby) and I don't like Leeds Rhinos at all, haha. And as a Bulls fan, I don't really mind Bradford City - I wish them well at least anyway.

I think this supposed "hatred" is overblown to be honest, mostly in evidence from some empty vessels on a couple of forums and the T&A.

To be honest I can barely recall anything other than the odd snide comment, usually about who was on the back of the T&A the most, until the VP groundshare, I even seem to recall the Bulls squad parading a trophy at a City game in the not too distant past.

Not that I can recall. Indeed, usually the opposite apart from the usual handful of fekkwits on both sides.

Where there has been animosity in recent years, it has been almost entirely over stadium (as in...can't afford it) issues on both sides. Backs against the wall job. Otherwise, like I suggest the large majority of Bulls fans, I wish the Bantams well and hope they can manage to drag themselves back up from where they currently unreasonably languish. The city could sure do with it.

Ah, your the token Bulls Fan then!

Have to agree though. I was gobsmacked at the animosity over on the Wigan board between football and rugby fans. I mean, whats the population of that town?.....20 thousand max?

There's nowt so strange as folk!

Wigan the town, population over 80k. Wigan the metropilitan borough (i.e comparable with leeds or Bradford) is around 300k.

hth

If I may? As an outsider?

TBH I find it curious that there is the animosity between fans of the RL and the football as there is no real reason why they should be a direct threat to each other. In general the games are played on different days (or at differing times on the same day) so there should not be an issue over attendances being compromised.

However.....

I look at the clowns on Soccer AM (or Tim Lovejoy as it was) who regularly take a pop at the "eggchasers" as they so intelligently put it does not help as the average football fan (and bear in mind that I have always been a football fan first and foremost) gets taken in by that sort of thing.

Then we get Wigan.....

First of all - did anyone see their pitch the other day?? It was an utter disgrace. However no doubt when it is a couple of weeks into the season, all you will hear is about how playing Rugby League at the "DW Stadium" has made the pitch the state it is in. I accept that there are a few murmurings about it at the moment but it will all get brushed aside until they can blame the minority sport rather than a team from the mighty Premiership.

Their rivalry seems obvious to me though. The move to the new stadium clearly benefitted the Latics rather than the Cherry and Whites. Wigan RL had been used to having success at Central Park and their fans were far more vociferous about the move than the Latics who were bad, and getting worse and playing at an absolute dump at Springfield Park. Unfortunately for the Rugby side (until 2010 of course) the move coincided with the worst run they have had in a long long time whilst the Football side went from Conference favourite to Premiership regulars in the same time as Whelan clearly saw the financial benefits of getting a Premiership side in his ground.

The salary cap stifled Wigan RL, the Latics had millions thrown at them and suddenly the people of this "Rugby town" had competition and it was always going to cause antagonism through envy.

As for Leeds?

I think they benefit from the fact that they revel in the "No one likes us, we don't care" scenario. Therefore their apparent pride in their city (again a view from afar) will lead to their "them v us" thoughts and therefore they will get behind whatever sides represent the city.

Now where does Bradford stand amongst it all?

To the outsider it seems obvious. Richmond crippled the Bantams by copying the idiot Ridsdale from along the way and "chasing the dream". Players being paid ridiculous money was always gonna bite a side like City on the bottom as they do not have a big enough fanbase to justify the outlay, especially when the money men decide that they have had enough playing Championship Manager. They are dropping like a stone down the leagues and look more likely to be playing derbies against Park Avenue then the likes of Huddersfield and Leeds in the foreseeable.

And the Bulls....

Being stifled by a crumbling stadium that they cannot afford to run and needing a way out as soon as possible. Sadly their aint no sugardaddy to help fund any immediate move out of Odsal.

The Bantams fans have an emotional attachment to VP due to the unfortunate events of May 1985 and therefore, and rightly, they want to cling onto their spiritual home, despite it being a white elephant with more empty seats than a Harlequins RL supporters bus.

It is abundantly clear that the only way forward for both sides is a shared 20000 stadium, newly built, as equi-distant to the two grounds as possible. Odsal and VP need to be banished to history and both sides can start moving on. Bradford gets bad enough press without its own people dragging them down over petty rivalries.

It is a shame. Every trip I have made to Bradford I have been fortunate to meet some very special people, after I have passed through Keighley. The city deserves better, the people deserve better and the two clubs deserve better. Bulls to VP? Better option of the two in my opinion but the only option is to build one stadium for the two sides. It has worked for Wigan and to a lesser extent Hull and Huddersfield. Bradford have the potential to make it work too. There are two sets of highly passionate fans in the city. If they worked together it could well be a success.

Very nicely put ME

That would certainly be the best compromise where both sets of fans give up their spiritual homes and get a modern purpose built stadium. The big difference between bradfords situation and likes of wigan,hull and hudds is that neither bulls or city own their grounds so have no asset to sell to fund a new build stadium. Also both are tied to there existing grounds financially. bulls through having to repay odsal settlement if we leave odsal and city through there rent agreement.

Nonsense, you support Dundee








Horrid, but funny

Now I know we have had our run ins in the past FA but that is just mean......

With that good fortune I hope you do the lottery.

The biggest problem has always been that, whilst other towns and cities are allowed to have retail backed stadia built by the private sector/council, Bradford isn't. Even when we organise a sports village, the powers that be organise a big recession/banking collapse just to ensure it won't happen.

Paranoid? Moi?

Imagine how dominant the side we'd started assembling in the late thirties would have been. They had to go and organise a World War to stop us.

Et moi, mon ami.

Pies, Stains, Wire all get a new stadium on the back of a Tesco superstore development, including non-retail, sufficiently far from the respective town centres to surely be a threat to those town centres?

Bradford were NOt able to get a similar Tesco-backed scheme through. Even though Tesco were subsequently allowed to massively expand their Canal Road store with a huge non-food component, as well as build a new Extra store up Great Horton Road. Oh, and Uncle Ken was allowed to have a Matalan store on his Mayo Avenue site, and the Co-op - one of the principal objectors - shut their flagship city centre department store (which not developing at Odsal was supposedly to help protect) not long after the Odsal scheme folded.

One day someone will be able to explain all this to me.

Simples. Bradford has been slowly destroyed over the past 20 years by greedy self-interest.

Possibly a little too 'simples' Roofy, though I wouldn't doubt there has been a bit of that going on.

Bradford lost out for many reasons over the years, from being a main line station to becoming a wayside halt on a network centred on another city a bit to the east, the road network ditto. On top of this remember how the government of the eighties (no doubt sparked by accusations of southern bias) decided to grant development area status on some city (presumably pulled from a hat) and decided on that same city which was already the centre of the transport links in West Yorks.

Not that Leeds (for that was the city) didn't have it's problems; Gipton, Belle Isle Osmondthorpe, just to pick a few, show it certainly did, but to pretend that Bradford didn't, and even worse, to fail to realise the knock on effects of giving Leeds the development status would have on neighbouring areas, was to my mind, criminal. Still it got Maggie re-elected, so all turned out well didn't it, or perhaps not,or maybe I really am paranoid.

I would argue that for Wigan, the Central Park site is probably as near you could have got to the town centre to build a large supermarket.

I know the 'enabling development' argument was accepted by the inspector who oversaw the planning appeal for the Warrington stadium (don't quote me on that though!) and I do believe the Tesco site at St Helens is much nearer to the town centre then you could compare Odsal to be. Also, in days gone by the planning process for retail had a lot of emphasis on demonstrating need. The applicant had to show that retail development could be accommodated, looking at the potential expenditure in the catchment area. This is still a consideration today, but with less emphasis. I suspect the Tesco scheme at Bradford may not have had sufficient 'need', but I don't really know!

Leigh now has planning permission for a supermarket adjacent to the stadium in the name of enabling development (even though the stadium has already been developed), I think the new stadium for Brighton and Hove Albion is enabled by a retail development. Didn't work for Everton at Kirkby though!

Some good points though about the Bradford retail scheme though, don't know too much about how the proposal never happened - maybe I'll look into it on another day!