Can't help but think the council would be loathe to give planning permission so that we could move from their site thus losing them rent. Can't really see a solution to this. We have no money, council have no money, RFL have no money. Sounds like a job for BoJo to renegotiate our withdrawal.

Council only get a peppercorn rent (£1 I think) for odsal. Its the RFL who get the benefit of the 72k rent. Although council probably wont want to miss out on the 100k rates we allegedly pay.

Very interesting stuff. That 30 September date stands out. I wonder if that’s the reason we’re in this position now. So many more questions than answers. It looks to me like AC is doing some rather public negotiation.



Important point that. It’s the RFL that want the rent. The Council aren’t making anything out of Odsal. According to RFL accounts seen by Adeybull Odsal was valued at £750k. They’ve had approx. £500k of rent out of us since 2013.

Running costs for Odsal including maintenance and staffing were £275k per year when the Council last did it in 2000. They had the benefit of getting work done more cheaply then due to economies of scale.

In short if we stay it's going to cost a fortune. I suspect we've spent hardly anything on maintenance since 2017, it certainly looks that way. It all looks to me like a move out has been on the cards from the beginning.

If you all want some nostalgia, there was, once, one (just the one) deal to sort out Odsal which looked very close to pen and paper, but then the planning application got called in, and the only chance there ever was of redeveloping Odsal died.

Nowadays, we don't even get the £100,000 annual artist's impression of the new Superduperdome, complete with stick families shopping and curly little trees. I miss those.

With a round of applause to Ken 'I can't wait to retire and watch my beloved Bulls cos I love Bradford me' Morrison and John 'I hate Bradford cos I'm a reeerver me' Prescott.

I've not been to Morriscum's since...

I believe they was a lease signed in 2014 for 5 years with the RFL when Marc Green took over which runs out on 30th September this year.RFL wanted Chalmers to extend the lease but he has so far refused.

Let's also not forget that this happened a couple of years ago [urlhttps://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/rfl-reveals-it-lost-more-than-2m-last-year-1-9246106[/url

Does a rent reduction help us that much anyway? Can't see £72k making much of a dent in the supposed £5000k it costs annually run the ground.

Ls have sworn that I read that was the amount somewhere.

Yes, I agree. But there is a difference in time, that "can be put off" way beyond the couple of weeks that the chairman has stated, though before anyone says so, yes, I do know that there is far more than just maintenance involved. My post about reducing capacity was a response to a particular post about the ground falling foul of the authorities and perhaps losing its licence. It wasn't my idea of a best way forward, though that said, it's a better way than some I've read...

I think its more to do with the overall package. As it stands, the Bulls pay the £72k rent and are responsible for all maintenance and repair costs. That figure has been suggested at close to £300k.

How that £300k is broken down is where the devil in the detail will be. My business is leisure facilities and I can tell you that a modern swimming pool costs 100% less to run and maintain than one built pre-2000. I can only imagine this is similar in sports stadia.

My reading of the situation is Chalmers is looking for one of two things:

1. Some capital investment from Bradford Council, supported by the governing body to create a fit for purpose, modern sports facility which can be used for the wider community (generating additional incomes the current stadium cannot) and in return reducing maintenance and upkeep costs.

or, if there is no capital investment opportunity...

2. A new sub-lease agreement with the RFL which will hold them as the main leaseholder at least partially responsible for the upkeep of an aging and expensive facility, thus reducing the £££ burden on the Bulls.

I think it will be a face off between the council and the RFL that determines the outcome. The council will presumably have already seen their business rates revenue decrease as a result of the RFL devaluing the asset and without the continued sub-lease from the Bulls the RFL will be solely responsible for the business rates come September 30th.

Its no surprise or coincidence the RFL did what they did with the valuation this year of all years which suggests to me that this move has very much been on the table for some time and only now as we approach D-Day is it all starting to be played out in the press.

All three parties have agendas in play here in a game where self protection could end up costing everyone (council, club and NGB). Its in everyone's best interests to get a deal but the players are so stubborn I fear they may be their own worst enemies!!!

Well put BIEL

Bit O/T but I noticed BPA have had a dismal start to the season losing both their opening games 5-0!!!! Some frustarted fans at the way things are being run there at the moment. Sounds like the owner has put plenty Of money in and invested off the field. But not much on it (despite Gledhills claims that they've won 2 promotions since Roberts took over, when in actual fact they haven't earned any. And people have the cheek to say he cops some unfair critisicm just because he's passionate!) It sounds like BPA were losing money hand over fist and they're looking to cut costs(though I think he still is investing in infrastructure) so may make a newstadium share more likely. Admittedly that's me reading in between the lines, from Comments from social media, but losing both your opening games 5-0 would back that up. Interesting piece by Aaron Bower here. https://www.totalrl.com/bradford-bulls- ... -unlikely/

Bit O/T but I noticed BPA have had a dismal start to the season losing both their opening games 5-0!!!! Some frustarted fans at the way things are being run there at the moment. Sounds like the owner has put plenty Of money in and invested off the field. But not much on it (despite Gledhills claims that they've won 2 promotions since Roberts took over, when in actual fact they haven't earned any. And people have the cheek to say he cops some unfair critisicm just because he's passionate!) It sounds like BPA were losing money hand over fist and they're looking to cut costs(though I think he still is investing in infrastructure) so may make a newstadium share more likely. Admittedly that's me reading in between the lines, from Comments from social media, but losing both your opening games 5-0 would back that up. Interesting piece by Aaron Bower here. https://www.totalrl.com/bradford-bulls- ... -unlikely/

We spent the whole second part of the Full Eighty Minutes last night breaking down the costs.

Rent and Occupancy Costs are £512,000 per year. Whoever said £300,000 is way off as that was the occupancy and maintenance cost in 1998 as Sam Grundy and Andrew Foster pointed out on the show.

The facts are that opening and operating Odsal on a matchday are costing the club £33,000.

Peter Hood disclosed in an interview in 2011 the costs were £25,000.

The main problem as I started on the show is that you have three parties - Bradford Bulls, RFL and BMDC with no money or room for manoeuvre with the developers interested in the Odsal site.

Unless all three accept that there is going to have to be some leeway to the redevelopment deal done, then I really do fear we will be left with nothing. Scary.

Thanks to the Sam Grundy and Andrew Foster for giving up their time to appear on the show. Some.interesting viewpoints discussed.

Mick who is paying this on our behalf then? Or funding the club in general?
If you don't know, aren't you curious?

Running costs for Odsal were £275k per year back in 1998. Source was a Council spokesperson in the T&A.

Imagine that the council could with their many different areas of expertise manage to keep costs down. Economies of scale at work too. The minute it becomes a responsibility of a private tenant it costs more.

Mick said Chalmers covered the costs of running Odsal Nothus.

Listen to the podcast mate, but yes, Andrew Chalmers has covered all bills and subsequently, the loses so far.

I didn't even realise he was that well off!

And it does make you wonder why he upped sticks 12,000 miles to p155 the thick end of £750k into a black hole on a team he had chuff all connections with nor loyalty to, in a lower league, in a known money pit, if nothing was promised in return???

Just because the RFL 'invited' him to apply....

Don't make me laugh...has he and Uncle Nigel fallen out now? Not seen him in the bowl for a while?

So to sum this up:

1. The Council gets zero income from Odsal, and hasn't got the proverbial pot to pee in, and will face more cuts this year, so the chances of them agreeing to chip in to the maintenance - particularly as the lease the RFL and they signed does not oblige them to - is about the same as my chances of winning the Golden Boot.

2. The RFL are running at a loss already, so are also potless, but they have lease obligations.

3. If as we now think our sub lease runs out in September, and we move, then that would 100% leave RFL holding the maintenance buck. They would save on matchdays - as there wouldn't be any - but would receive zero rent. I am not in favour of a move to Dewsbury, but would vastly prefer that to BPA, it would be (comparatively) very cheap indeed, and if the Council and the RFL had a full season to stew, maybe that would be sufficient incentive for them to come up with some sort of plan that makes financial sense for us - as nobody else is going to be moving in.

The RFL bought the Odsal lease specifically announcing that they did so to preserve the iconic stadium from circling vultures, and so I can't really see a way in which they could now drop it like a hot potato to be developed by whoever into lord knows what; so it seems to me that this is very much the RFL's problem, unless I am missing something?

Just maybe we have a chairman who is no mug, and is playing his hand well?

Came across this piece on Serious About RL https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/six-pote ... hL2dzwzccw One left-field suggestion that is made for a potential ground, not mentioned before, is Guiseley FC. It's only just outside Bradford - the border is halfway up Hollings Hill and the ground is at the top of the hill! Apparently, a capacity of 4000. Total speculation. I assume, but worth considering maybe?

Came across this piece on Serious About RL https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/six-pote ... hL2dzwzccw One left-field suggestion that is made for a potential ground, not mentioned before, is Guiseley FC. It's only just outside Bradford - the border is halfway up Hollings Hill and the ground is at the top of the hill! Apparently, a capacity of 4000. Total speculation. I assume, but worth considering maybe?

Quote ="paulwalker71"Came across this piece on Serious About RL https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/six-pote ... hL2dzwzccw One left-field suggestion that is made for a potential ground, not mentioned before, is Guiseley FC. It's only just outside Bradford - the border is halfway up Hollings Hill and the ground is at the top of the hill! Apparently, a capacity of 4000. Total speculation. I assume, but worth considering maybe?'" That would be perfect for me as I can be there in ten minutes

Quote ="paulwalker71"Came across this piece on Serious About RL https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/six-pote ... hL2dzwzccw One left-field suggestion that is made for a potential ground, not mentioned before, is Guiseley FC. It's only just outside Bradford - the border is halfway up Hollings Hill and the ground is at the top of the hill! Apparently, a capacity of 4000. Total speculation. I assume, but worth considering maybe?'" That would be perfect for me as I can be there in ten minutes

It may not be relevant,or helpful,but the owner of Guiseley AFC is Mr Steve Parkin,of Clipper Logistics,who,of course,sponsor Hunslet.So there is more of a rugby league connection there then maybe BPA.

Wealthy chap is Steve Parkin.

Guiseley would be alright as a temporary option. Parkin's name rings a bell. Wasn't his name mooted during one of our admins?

As things stand the club's days are obviously numbered if it stays at Odsal in its present state.

Ideally we need to think longer term. It's short termism by all that's got us into this pickle. Ideally we need a ground in Bradford with scope to expand as a sustainable business. If Horsfall can be expanded a little as we progress then that would be ok.

Quote ="paulwalker71"Came across this piece on Serious About RL https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/six-pote ... hL2dzwzccw One left-field suggestion that is made for a potential ground, not mentioned before, is Guiseley FC. It's only just outside Bradford - the border is halfway up Hollings Hill and the ground is at the top of the hill! Apparently, a capacity of 4000. Total speculation. I assume, but worth considering maybe?'" I can live with that.... just on the border with Menston CBMDC no matter how much they protest

Quote ="paulwalker71"Came across this piece on Serious About RL https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/six-pote ... hL2dzwzccw One left-field suggestion that is made for a potential ground, not mentioned before, is Guiseley FC. It's only just outside Bradford - the border is halfway up Hollings Hill and the ground is at the top of the hill! Apparently, a capacity of 4000. Total speculation. I assume, but worth considering maybe?'" I can live with that.... just on the border with Menston CBMDC no matter how much they protest