I agree with all previous comments the team performance was embarrassing, the players looked yesterday to have resigned themselves to the club being in the championship next season.
We had our props and Donaldson back (apart from Fakir) and whilst the pack did their job I thought O'Brien and Olbison's tackling was weak.
Catalans obviously decided that they could walk through our threequarters which they did regularly with pathetic attempts from us to chase down and catch their runners.
We had our usual start allowing three very soft tries in the first twelve minutes which included the try from Foster and Gaskell allowing the ball to bounce but which, as stated on Sky, should still have been stopped if Foster could tackle.
Gale was I think still suffering from the hamstring injury which kept him out of the game against Saints so Addy did most of the kicking work.
Not looking good for the Wakefield game next week.

Well there is plenty of tries to enjoy, unless you've seen enough at Wakefield this aft?

Correct. This because they are LAZY. All other teams work at having enough dummy runners, or extra people joining the line, or people making run after run so the passer has options. We don't.

Partially correct, Gale only shows flashes and it is miles from good enough, but part of the problem is the almost inevitable lack of options that his "team-mates" give him, due to laziness, so the defence just KNOWS that he is going to kick, or else has no options to cover when he is going to pass.


Correct. This, as anyone watching the video can see, is because too many players are LAZY too much of the time. They can not argue against this. Every other team works hard at shuttling back and forward, most of the time most other teams come out as a line and close down the attack. We don't. Too often, we are stood on our heels and let them charge at us; too often, we just laze idly round whilst attackers run circles around us. Too often, players make no effort to get properly set in a defensive position. Too often, the tackle attempts are lamentable. Too often, not enough players get involved and so too often offloads come out ages after the initial contact.

Actually we have performed better a few ties with Gaskell at FB but even Mumby could do little when exposed against a livewire like Escare. I don't blame Gaskell, Cummins knows what he can and can't do, and how fast he can or can't run, and if he is played at FB you can't expect him to magic up extra pace that he doesn't have. He did look like a man carrying a hamstring, to me, though, he looked really sluggish at times.

I don't mind seeing a few more

I don't buy the players are lazy. For me it's partly we have a number of relatively poor players, and partly due to them being incredibly brittle psychologically.

The response to Cats first try was that of a group of people who wanted to go home. With few exceptions, Naz and Kaufusi we KNEW we were going to get hammered and of course we did.

They've spent weeks playing with no props and you simply stop making dummy runs because you're using up all your energy tackling in the middle. Lulia and Blythe were our best edge defenders last year and they're injured or not really replaced.

A bunch of generally below average players plus the circumstances they've endured equals what we saw on Saturday. I don't see Cummins getting a great deal of support. Signing 19 year olds just in the country is pointless. Neither do I see a group of guys who believe in Cummins anymore irrespective of whether any of it is his fault.

The ball's in Green's court. Either back Cummins with some players (which he hasn't done) or sack him. What we're witnessing now is inevitable relegation.

Sounds like you're describing Wakey at the moment!

I can see where you're coming from there but to me anyone who saw Wigan out-tackle Leeds/Salford with 10 reserves in,mostly youngsters,knows that Cummins,imo,is not capable of getting the VERY BEST out of WHAT HE'S GOT AT HIS DISPOSAL.If all those players who lined up against CATALAN,tackled their hearts out and ran their blood to water for the BULLS CAUSE,then you would say they did their best,left everything on the pitch and Cummins got the best out of them,but the showing at Catalans lacked passion,inspiration and a die-for-the-cause attitude which is Cummin's task as head coach.Agree with just a couple of exceptions,the players are well below top class,but so were the Wigan youngsters and looked what they achieved.
I have to laugh though when quite a few posted at the time,Nahhh,we don't need Whitehead,he can't tackle and Nahh we don't need Bateman he's too small.Laughable now innit as when I see Elliot scoring try after try even in a poorish side and having been injured and I see Bateman who is only 20 years old leading the Wigan side to victory last week,both look set for international honours imo.Bateman,in particular,seems to run his blood to water for the Wigan cause,what a contrast to our lot who,don't forget,are still paid professionals.
IMO--Performances like the Catalan stroll just ain't acceptable---simple as that.

I don't disagree with any of that Madas, apart from the fact that the circumstances at Wigan are the polar opposite.

I agree players are being lazy. Twice against Catalan we had a player runnin across the line, if we had a support player willing to RUN on to the ball we could have made a break. As it was they all just stood there with the attitude "not my turn to take the ball up so I'll have a breather" this is why I get so annoyed when Cummins bangs on about effort and character. Players being on their toes willing to run as a dummy runner when they're not getting the ball is effort and character. We have no one wiling to do that.

On Gale. While havin not dummy runners is players being lazy as mentioned above, Gale is the main half back AND captain. It is his job to get he lazy players running as dummy runners. In pre-season the media and fans seemed to have Sammut and Gaskell as our halves. Cummins seemed to shoot the reporters down rather bitterly when this was put to him stating "Gale was our main HB and it was up to Sammut and Gaskell to fight for the other position" Sammut is now doing well at Wakey, Gaskell is now a headless chicken at FB, and Gale is hopeless at HB. He has NO leadership qualities and is not organising the attacking line. Not once this season have I seen us on the opposition line setup to attack thinking "we've got some moves here. We look organised" we look so unorganised, Gale looks like he has no idea what he's doing when he gets the ball and he usually end up passing it down the line (well I say passing, more like we just lob the ball) Unfortunately we're stuck with him on a long term contract thanks to our coach.

On Gaskell, yor clutching at straws. Escare, actually slowed down, then couldn't believe how much room Gaskell had left him. Once you can maybe accept he made a mistake. But what about Broughtona try? Oldfields try? He hadnt even laid a finger on them! Gaskells not slow (he out paced Watkins) he just has no idea how to play FB. What about the high kicks he has dropped last two games? He is an awful FB. Get him back to 6.

agree one is fighting for their very existence,while the other sits comfortably in the top 4.

Which team should be running their blood to water?

We have seen both sides of the coin this season. We have seen the team run their blood to water on some occasions, and being the forgiving and encouraging chaps and chapesses we are, we stayed back and clapped and cheered them off the field. They won too, but that isn't the first thing on our requirements, we just want to feel they put it all in.

And then we see like at Catalans, and you have to ask WHY - forget coaching, forget poor standard of playeers, get back to the basics - given that our team DID NOT run their collective blood to water, but spent a lot of the game stood around, being lazy, and choosing not to work for each other - WHY did so many players have that attitude?

Have we got anyone that is competent to do something effective about it? I am not suggesting we immediately sign Karl Harrison, or anyone, but does anyone think that the same team would do the same idle shift if they were going back to a dressing room (and training week) under Harrison, or Wane, or some such?

At least we may hear from the upper echelons of the club again. Even if it is only another apology.

Some of it is down to confidence rather than laziness. Wigan's younger players run their blood to water because they know that if they do they'll probably win. Our players can do that if they get off to a good start or get into the game such as when we beat Warry. But the body language suggests that they generally expect to lose. And conceding an early try just reinforces that lack of belief. Their opening try pricked our balloon, the energy just evaporated out of the team.

We all know the job's fooked and has been since the points came off at the start of the season. There's no reason to suggest that the players are thinking any different. Imagine winding a business down with redundancy beckoning. Efficiency and quality control are going to go out of the window. They'll be more focussed on trying to sort their livelihoods for next season and who can blame them?

So you might get the occasional game where it all comes together but generally the mood will be one of resignation. Very hard to see how anyone can shake them out of that really.

Correct. The players are mentally shattered and whatever Cummins is saying is not getting through to them. The idea that despite the fear of being out of work at the season's end 12 or 13 of the players who played on Saturday simply can't be bothered is absurd. They're not very good, they're not sure what they're doing and they don't believe it would make any difference anyway.

Ferecious Aardvark - you are more than welcome to come a get Harrison - take him away!!

Mind you know what its like when your club is in thus position as Fax were in 2003 , it is a shame to see Bradord in their current predicament.

Surely one good way of ensuring that their livelihoods are sorted out for next season is by actually playing well and puting yourself in the shop window?

Let's be honest, who on earth would want any of our players on current form?

I disagree. The trick to acquiring any player isn't to see his current form, but weigh up what he [icould[/i do for you if handled correctly. The trick if you sign him is then to man-manage him - with the rest - to get the best out of the whole.

There are plenty in our squad who would (and probably will) play in SL next year, and will do much better than they have been for us. There are certainly plenty who have a boatload more ability than they have shown of late. That's the most frustrating thing for me. If they were all inherently crap, yet trying their best every week, that would do for me.

About a million times less absurd than the notion that they played like that yet WERE "bothered"!



You are I think in a considerable minority if you think they really were bothered. The coach himself, who i suggest is well placed to really know, is in the majority:


Now, in my book, if players "ARE NOT PREPARED TO DEFEND ON THE BACK OF ERRORS" then that is not being bothered. Do you disagree?



The idea that 12 or 13 of the players who played on Saturday simply couldn't be bothered is therefore a long way from absurd. On the contrary, you have basically had this spelled out by the coach, who is warning the fans that he can't guarantee that all the players will even turn up, or be willing to do a job for the team, and he's worried we could even get embarrassed by Wakefield.

I haven't quite heard anything as defeatist publicly said by the man who is supposed to be motivating the said team, in all my days.

Don't buy this "we were down as soon as we had the 6 points taken off" that's absolutely rubbish. A lot of
Games this season we have had a good team on the field but been given an absolutely spanking in MOST games this season. The players have been paid every week and the "financial troubles" have been resolved for weeks. There is absolutely no excuses for the "effort"'some of these players are putting in.

In 2012 you could have forgiven them for putting in these kind of performances when they won't getting paid on time and we didn't really have anything to play for as there was no relegation. Those players busted a gut to get in the play-offs. This lot think its ok to give up after 30 seconds and see another huge score put past us.

No, 'Not prepared' and 'can't be bothered' don't mean the same thing.

Cummins may have inadvertently hit on the root cause of the problem. If the team was collectively unprepared to defend off the back of errors he needs to look at himself, or have they all gone down with lazyitis on the same day?

For present purposes, then, you'll need to explain the difference, cos I'm buggered if I can see a material one!

To me that reads like Cummins has lost the dressing room, as they say these days.

The most incredible phrase in that somewhat sad eulogy is the one about hoping we have a handful of players 'who are willing to do a job for the team'

Here's a thought Mr Cummins: How about we see 17 players who are willing to a job for the team? Frankly 'a handful' won't suffice, as we can be certain that Wakefield will be fired up for this game.

And if he is suggesting that there were a handful that weren't even trying on Saturday - and the visual evidence would suggest that - then, given that we look like having Diskin, Ferguson, Blythe, Walker, Fakir etc back and available - then it should be quite simple to drop that handful

Then we would see who 'the handful' are.

I could easily identify who the handful were from my vantage point in the Tribune Ouest stand on Saturday for those having difficulty.
Foster, Gaskell -never let him play FB again, Gale, Henry- never seen him do anything, if fact, hang on, it's shorter to state that Addy, Purts and Kear at least appeared to give a damn! The rest either didn't care or couldn't give a toss.
I've witnessed bigger defeats this season in respect of scores but not a more gutless, passion lacking, soft and embarrassing display served up. It's the first time I've felt the need to say that on that performance the Bulls don't deserve to be in Super League. Sad day!