Whilst the idea of a senior group was unusual when maguire had it, there has always been a need for a core of players to look to when it gets tough. we simply dont have it, and i struggle to see how 1 player would change that.

forget the reasons, but you take out menzies, orford and hall, and look at the replacements and i stuggle to see the leadership element replaced. I was intially against it, but i feel we do need an experienced a fiery prop to give the pack the bite they should have/ need. sammut will add to the vocal aspect, and lestrange returning will be good, but still need to add to the character of the side

You're right about the character of the side. Too many are ready to take a loss too easily.

We need another nasty forward a bit like Elima. Add a bit of fire to our game.

Tbh i'd be happy if we signed Ryan Bailey. Our pack is too soft atm. Can't leave it all to Oli and Tom B

Agree mate and I for one would welcome Bailey (if somewhat controversial) with open arms.

As I said earlier a good attacking ball playing loose forward is also a must although Addy deserves his chance there.

The backline for 2012 is looking to be something totally different to what we have seen over the past three/fours years with it certainly possessing that dynamic and potent edge.

To say we lost the game on Sunday from that kick off wouldn't at all be an understatement mate.

Mmmm, I think thats taking it abit far tbh. Unless you mean we lost the game from the kick off onwards of course....

Certainly didn't help but we couldn't defend a set all first half which wasn't just down to Ah Van or his kick out on the full. At 10-0 down we had a load of possession on their line and couldn't score. Thats down to composure and leadership on the pitch, by that I don't mean Lynch in particular but in generally controlling our game plan and calling moves when it matters. Not panicking when we go two scores down with 75 mins to go.

We had 13 people all playing their own game on Sunday, as we've had in some of the other games I've seen this year and last (sods law - I missed the Huddersfield game!). Now I don't know enough about Gale or Sammutt to say whether they can change that but unless it does change it doesn't matter how many new players we get in.

If Finnigan and Crookes aren't going to be options then after watching him in the 9's earlier on in the year and with us having problems in the backline due to suspensions and injuries, then perhaps he could make his debut or certainly be included into the 19 man squads for the games against Crusaders and Wakefield.

Him, jobe and straughn stood out in the 9's at craven park

Think Lynch is getting far too much chritism! He had no choice in stepping into the breach has on field captain, nobody else at the club at the time Orford left could come close to be comming captai , he is a "lead by example" type of player, who at times this season has tried too much to do everything his so called team mates should be doing! lets not forget barring Elima, (who too has spent a bit of time on the side lines this season due to injury) has been on his own in the pack, while trying to nurture the undoubted raw tallent of the kids who have operated in the forwards! Many times this season and last, he's had too do far too long a stint, many a time comming back on when any other forward would have cried fowl!

Thats not me saying we dont need an on field general, we do, and unfortunetly for Lynch he's bore the brunt of the un founded chritism becouse of that!

Lynch is a brilliant embosador for the club and while he's still a bull i have no problem with him captain whatsoever for his attitude all the way through this debacle, if we do find an on field general who can move the team round the park then i wouldn't have a problem with Lynch relinqueshing the raigns (and i don't think he would) but he should allways be the club captain!

The same Lynch that had a pop at the fans earlier in the season???

Great attitude.

A certain section of the fans im sure your one of!

Still fans who pay their[u MONEY [/uto go watch him under perform with all the rest of the players.

That makes it ok then!

Abuse away!

Come on Red, Lynch is not underperforming. If he was playing in a team that knew what the hell they were about, that employed a few less donkeys, he would look pretty outstanding IMO. But playing for this lot, and for the length of stints he plays, he has sod all chance to shine, and just gets dragged down with the mediocrity of too many of the rest. Even then, his stats and the opinions of fans of other teams suggest he ain't doing so bad?

Unfortunately Adey that doesn't hold any water with the blood thirsty linch mob we have in certain sections of our fan base!

pun intended!

Lynch would get in most of the leading teams. We don't have many you could say that about.

Yes. If your happy to put up with the shiite we have seen this year that's up to you I'm not so looks like I'm not a super duper mega fan.

Lynch is supposedly our top earner I don't believe we have had value for money out of him this season.

Stop yer whining ffs! Coming out with daft comments like that just makes you look stupid! Not once have i said criticism wasn't due to players who deserve it, but to make up crap about a player who works harder than any one else, does more work than any one else and spends more time on the pitch than anyone else, for the good of the club, then your going to be brought down to the level of common gobsh*te which we already have plenty of on here!

Mate, that goes for almost all of them, to a greater or lesser extent?

Without knowing the packages, we probably had VFM out of Koppy and some of the youngsters, and probably Raynor and Heath? And too many players have been injured for too long to be able to say we have had VFM?

But I reckon we have had more value for money out of Lynch than almost anyone else? Especially when you take into account time spent on field?

Some of our signings have been poor - there is no doubting that. Some of them have gone wrong through circumstances outside the clubs control.

I put this on the other thread - with hindsight I should have realised that thread was doomed.

I seem to remember a post full of advice/encouragement from a Wigan fan maybe 18/12 ago. He (put simply) was saying that Wigan had had problems - panic buying, no forward thinking and made one astute signing - Trent Barrett.

He gave Wigan time - time to integrate their youth setup, allowed them to compete better in the short term, allowed them to use their quota signings properly - signing class rather than "good enough". He got them points from games that they otherwise wouldn't have got.

We had just signed Awford - which is where the encouragement came from. And - as most people would agree, for the first few months of that season, he did give us the ability to compete at a higher level than we otherwise would. The rest is history. And probably set us back at least 2yrs.

Good post

Christ. I get into bother for not attending games from some quarters yet get accused of being there and causing bother from others.

Like the Bulls at the moment I simply cannot win.

I think you're spot on with saying that the Orford farce has indeed set us back two years if not more in terms of getting continuity within the halves.

I won't be alone in the hope that Sammut and Gale hit it off during the off season/pre season building.