.....we had Tony Smith as our coach with the same squad. Would we be any better?

I was impressed with the Wire in the second half of their game today and it got me wondering how Smith has improved the Wolves.

Yes we would.

Definatley Yes,,Wire are a different team now that Smith has taken over there,,think it was said they have won 5/6 games and they were impressive 2nd half,,,.I hate to see coaches go but it looks like Mac*s time is up....

Hard to think that we could be any worse.

Doubtful, other than the normal (usually temporary)jump in performance that you normally get with a `new` regime.

The differences in circumstances between Wire and the Bulls are very large; The squad at Warrington have been massively underperforming, since given the names on the teamsheet they really ought to be in the top two or three, whilst we have what, by the standards of recent years, is a relatively poor squad.

That said, Smithy has shown himself to be a very capable coach who got the best from a poorish Huddersfield squad before his move to Leeds. Can`t comment on Wire last night though as I was otherwise engaged in Salford

So with a new coach we'd still be 13th in the league.

Dunno, is the short answer. We haven`t got another coach so it`s all hypothetical. We might have been bottom, who knows.

If we`d been regularly hammered I`d be more concerned, but we`ve generally been competitive; if the players were showing any lack of spirit or involvement I`d be more bothered, but they`re not. The majority of games we`ve lost (or won) have been by around one score so clearly could have gone either way. With just on a bit of luck swinging one way or the other we COULD have been below Celtic.......... or in the top four.

Hopefully things will get better and the ball will bounce our way a little. Whatever happens this is no time for pointless knee jerks since, one of the few certainties in life is that all coaches are doomed to fail (on the basis of results and being sacked because of them), it goes with the territory; sack the Mac and get someone who has failed elsewhere, plus ca la change?

Nil desperandum.

What they said.

All that said, seems increasingly clear that there is a big issue with both confidence and motivation. Increasingly wondering if Macca is maybe an excellent technical coach, but is struggling to inspire them to perform to their best? That may help explain why other clubs with similar teams on paper (if that) are outperforming us. If that's the case, then we won't get anywhere under the present set-up. But I said "IF". Is there anyone on here sufficiently qualified to comment from first-hand experience, rather than just from their armchair? I'm sure not, so that's why I am asking.

And, again, even if we DO want a change, who would come on the sort of terms likely to be available? Someone above mentioned an upcoming guy from the NRL keen to try and make a name for himself as a stepping stone to top grade coaching in the NRL. Maybe that would be affordable?

What's so bugging me is that we seem to have been only just the wrong side of winning so many times. We got hammered by the Pies and the Wire, but we've been hammered in games in previous seasons and still gone on to do really well - so I'm discounting those - it happens. Its all those "other" games where were just not good enough that are the problem. And each time we saw the same - either we were doing fine, then let something in and suddenly collapsed and went into panic mode, or we started badly and could never really pull it back. Seems to me its locked in players' heads now, that's the trouble.

Either that or there are problems behind the scenes. If so, doubt the fans' forum will shed any light (obviously) but you never know.

For now though, I'll just echo what someone else sensible said above - I'm actually glad its two weeks till we have to endure all this again.

Why do people just keep getting hung on this season results. The problems go further back than that to mid-season last year. Since beating Wigan in round 12 last year our record stands at 11 wins from the last 29 games. IMO that can not be described as making progress.

Good points, as usual Adey.

I guess confidence is inevitably going to be low, chiefly since it comes from winning and probably no words from the coaching staff are going to do what a few back to back wins will. I`m not so sure about a lack of motivation though; many teams just go to pieces when they go behind and that`s only happened to us in a couple of games where we got hammered plus the Catalan cup game second half, of course (how could I forget that!!). As you point out we`ve been agonisingly close to a win on so many occasions.

I`ve heard it said that Macca is a bit `too close` to the team (I think that means he socialises with them) though I`ve no idea whether it`s true or not (or even if it matters, to be honest). It`s also said he doesn`t `do` bollockings which, perhaps, might be a bother.

I say that because in a previous incarnation I was in charge of a small team in the world of engineering and if there was one thing I learnt it was that all people are different and to get the best out of your team they had to be treated as the individuals they were. Where one would respond to being told that you felt let down another needed a kick up the jacksie, the trick of course was to know the difference. Back at the Bulls maybe a second coach with whom Steve can play good cop bad cop with might be the way to go, though I suspect finance might rule out that option.

If I had to put [isomething[/i at the top of the list of what's bugging me is how come, for a long time now, the team as a whole can come out on so many occasions making such sheer weight of numbers of basic handling errors. More games than not, the catalogue of dropped passes etc is really quite unbelievable for a SL team. And I can't see that that is a coaching issue btw since for example on Friday Menzies was at it, as were one or two other senior players, and I doubt he has anything to learn about catching a rugby ball. But I'll admit I am devoid of any explanation at all as to why we fsck up as much as we do, save to say that we do.

Some of your comments I agree with but the sentence highlighted made me smile. I don't think I have ever seen a bunch of players with less spirit than Bulls this season.

Finally we get a result like we did in Scotland, spirit should be high, we can finally kick start our season against the team bottom of the league and then we have a spiritless performance like we did. We start games like we have already lost, heads are down and there is clearly no motivation or drive. Even after the Wakefield game when I met a few of the players they looked thoroughly depressed, no excitement about getting a result and certainly none of this spirit you have mentioned!

The team is not playing as a team, a few individual efforts have kept us close in some games but there is certainly no spirit in the Bradford team at the moment and that is clear to see by most, there are deep issues in the team and at the moment I can't see us digging ourselves out of this hole without major changes.

Well whenever I've played (albeit at much much lower level) handling errors are usually down to a lack of concentration on what is happening and/or a lack of familiarity with other players. Sometimes it also comes down to plain ability though this is less of a factor when you get to SL level. Lastly they can be down to fatigue when tiredness causes players to make mistakes they wouldn't make when fresh.

Coaches can work to address many of these areas, they can ensure the team is a fit as possible and everyone is familiar with everyone else. Concentration is more difficult to ensure, especially if players have other things preying on their minds.

Re: Menzies' dropsy - takes two to drop a pass. Is our passing technique up to snuff.

Looking at [url=http://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_club.php?hs1=2009&hp1=7400&hs2=2009&hp2=350&stat=errors&season=2009this[/url, we've made one more error than Saints, off three hundred less carries. Doesn't seem to be much correlation between total errors and the league table though (maybe because of the possession thing).

A big problem for us have been where we make the errors rather than the number. Also important is the stage in the tackle count.

For example versus Celtic we made loads at the point where we should have been exerting pressure on their line. Instead we turned it over cheaply and so they didn't have to really exert themsleves in defence. In comparision they took what few chances they had.

Hmm. A bit of maths and we see that Bulls drop it on 7.2% of carries. Leeds on 6.6% for comparison. Hull on 4.6% of them, though it doesn't seem to be doing them much good.

Its not a coaching issue its a recruitment issue.

In what way? Yes, you could argue that we've signed players that can't catch or pass, however both those can be improved by the correct application of training and coaching

The players we have our far too inconsistent. They are by nature not by coaching. Numerous good coaches tried to make Solomona more consistent but failed. MacNamara doesnt coach Platt to shepherd a 40/20 kick into touch. Halley will have plenty of good games but will find that against certain teams his lack of physique will limit his impact.

Throughout the history of rugby league there have been numerous players that were very talented but erratic. Some of them became more consistent with time, most did not. The real difference between a top quality player and a second tier player is often consistency. We seem to have specialised in recruiting the less reliable players.

A player such as Jeffries is no more likely to be coached into having 3 consecutive good matches than Joe Vagana could have been coached into scoring length of the field tries. He just doesnt have it in him.

I was thinking similar on Fri night. We have players who on their day can be very good RL players but perhaps not consistently. People like Sheriffe, Nero and Platt etc have shown some great Rugby for the Bulls but equally have had their share of howlers.

The successful Bulls sides had quality players who were dependable such as Withers, Lowes, Gartner and Forshaw. We also had some true match winners in Robbie, Henry, Hape, Vaikona and Vainikolo. We simply do not have players of an equivalent class right now.

I like this thread...

All coaches fail.

So there is no point in sacking a failing coach. As you'd be replacing them with another failing coach

Also, we lost some games but we could have won them. The ones we've won we could have lost, so we've been competitive, so let's not worry. (Isn't that just sport - you [icould[/i win, but you [icould[/i lose)

Status quo rules! Macca for England/ GB job (oh, yeah hes already got one)

Really?

Ask the fans of Aberdeen FC and Manchester United FC about Sir Alex Ferguson, Celtic FC fans about Jock Stein, or Liverpool FC fans about Bob Paisley......

Different sports, I accept, but it does tend to contradict your point.

I was indirectly quoting from an earlier celebrated post, to highlight the clear contradictions to such a generalisation. The cases you refer to are good examples of which there will be many others.

Not all coaches fail and therefore the line of argument that Macca shouldn't be replace as all coaches fail is empirically false.