Stats from last night are here: www.superleague.co.uk/report/11950 Few things of note: Walmsley, Amor, Savelio and Richards made 200, 117, 103 and 76 metres respectively. Walmsley and Savelio have been playing well all year, but I said after the Hull FC game that our halfbacks would continue to look poor if our props didn't all stand up, and they all really stood up last night. Amor made more metres vs Leeds than Amor, Masoe and Richards made combined against Hull! Our left side still misses a lot of tackles, with Jones missing 5 and Wilkin missing 7 (though in fairness he did make 39). As a unit though we look stronger with Jones at centre I think (despite Keinhorst's try last night). Walsh's defence has improved since having Jones as his centre, averaging less than 2 missed tackles a game. Looking at the matches Walsh played with Turner as his centre, only twice did he have less than 2 misses. We offloaded a lot more than previous games. Before this game we were averaging just over 8 offloads a game, last night we threw 13. On the flip side of this, before this game we were averaging just under 9 errors, whereas last night this was 13. Seems to be worth the risk on the basis of last night though.

Stats from last night are here: www.superleague.co.uk/report/11950 Few things of note: Walmsley, Amor, Savelio and Richards made 200, 117, 103 and 76 metres respectively. Walmsley and Savelio have been playing well all year, but I said after the Hull FC game that our halfbacks would continue to look poor if our props didn't all stand up, and they all really stood up last night. Amor made more metres vs Leeds than Amor, Masoe and Richards made combined against Hull! Our left side still misses a lot of tackles, with Jones missing 5 and Wilkin missing 7 (though in fairness he did make 39). As a unit though we look stronger with Jones at centre I think (despite Keinhorst's try last night). Walsh's defence has improved since having Jones as his centre, averaging less than 2 missed tackles a game. Looking at the matches Walsh played with Turner as his centre, only twice did he have less than 2 misses. We offloaded a lot more than previous games. Before this game we were averaging just over 8 offloads a game, last night we threw 13. On the flip side of this, before this game we were averaging just under 9 errors, whereas last night this was 13. Seems to be worth the risk on the basis of last night though.

Quote ="Saint #1"Stats from last night are here: www.superleague.co.uk/report/11950 Few things of note: Walmsley, Amor, Savelio and Richards made 200, 117, 103 and 76 metres respectively. Walmsley and Savelio have been playing well all year, but I said after the Hull FC game that our halfbacks would continue to look poor if our props didn't all stand up, and they all really stood up last night. Amor made more metres vs Leeds than Amor, Masoe and Richards made combined against Hull! Our left side still misses a lot of tackles, with Jones missing 5 and Wilkin missing 7 (though in fairness he did make 39). As a unit though we look stronger with Jones at centre I think (despite Keinhorst's try last night). Walsh's defence has improved since having Jones as his centre, averaging less than 2 missed tackles a game. Looking at the matches Walsh played with Turner as his centre, only twice did he have less than 2 misses. We offloaded a lot more than previous games. Before this game we were averaging just over 8 offloads a game, last night we threw 13. On the flip side of this, before this game we were averaging just under 9 errors, whereas last night this was 13. Seems to be worth the risk on the basis of last night though.'" The props worked more as a unit last night with Sav, Amor, alex and Richsrds sharing the work load and not just relying on big alex. Amor is better when he plays more mins and sav is getting better and better against the "bigger clubs". As ive said all year, we need to take Mose out and let the props work as a unit. We looked much better in the front row last night agsinst a good front row in garbutt, peacock, cuthbertson and co. I wouldn't pick mose again if we keep our pack fit.

Quote ="Saint #1"Stats from last night are here: www.superleague.co.uk/report/11950 Few things of note: Walmsley, Amor, Savelio and Richards made 200, 117, 103 and 76 metres respectively. Walmsley and Savelio have been playing well all year, but I said after the Hull FC game that our halfbacks would continue to look poor if our props didn't all stand up, and they all really stood up last night. Amor made more metres vs Leeds than Amor, Masoe and Richards made combined against Hull! Our left side still misses a lot of tackles, with Jones missing 5 and Wilkin missing 7 (though in fairness he did make 39). As a unit though we look stronger with Jones at centre I think (despite Keinhorst's try last night). Walsh's defence has improved since having Jones as his centre, averaging less than 2 missed tackles a game. Looking at the matches Walsh played with Turner as his centre, only twice did he have less than 2 misses. We offloaded a lot more than previous games. Before this game we were averaging just over 8 offloads a game, last night we threw 13. On the flip side of this, before this game we were averaging just under 9 errors, whereas last night this was 13. Seems to be worth the risk on the basis of last night though.'" The props worked more as a unit last night with Sav, Amor, alex and Richsrds sharing the work load and not just relying on big alex. Amor is better when he plays more mins and sav is getting better and better against the "bigger clubs". As ive said all year, we need to take Mose out and let the props work as a unit. We looked much better in the front row last night agsinst a good front row in garbutt, peacock, cuthbertson and co. I wouldn't pick mose again if we keep our pack fit.

Yeah I agree. I think starting Walmsley on the bench works, because it means other props HAVE to lead and put their hand up to start with. Mose COULD have a good game and break loads of tackles if picked, he's certainly capable. However on the basis of this year, it's much more likely he'll make 5 carries in 80 minutes.

Exactly and he wasn't much better last year either. Very average sigining and very very half hearted lazy player who won't put his body on the line for the team.

But Mose does have that x factor. Sure if he's not bothered, then he's a drain on the team, but when he wants to bring his A game, he is pretty devastating.

Players like that will always get picked for big games as if they bring their best then they are the game breakers you need for those occasions, were as slow and steady will always be slow and steady and will not break a game.

It also depends on whether you have faith in the coaching staff, they say he has been carrying a leg injury. If that's the case then a leg injury will effect any players performance. ie Walsh

Mose was playing well a month or two back, but then seems to have been off the boil (like the rest of the team).

Maybe the coaching staff should have rested him earlier, rather than just playing him regardless of fitness.

He's not got the X factor at all. His only asset is he's big and 90% of the time he doesn't run his size. He's a average prop at best that on his day can be pretty good but them days don't come around very often.

He's not a team player at all and puts extra work Load on the pack as the guy only does 10 min spells and very rare he makes 8 carries per game and never ever makes one on one tackles. Every tackle is 2nd or 3rd man.

The front row worked as a unit on Friday and we shared the work load out much better than when we have a big fat pudding sat on the bench or walking around with his hands on hips letting the other lads run their blood to water.


Id never pick him again unless we get injurues. Imo he's behind Amor, alex, Sav, Richsrds, Thompson and Id even go with LMS before him. It's a team game and in semi finals rugby we can't carry players. It's like playing with 16 men every week.

I would still pick him, if used correctly like Beware Shadows says he can be pretty devastating and a game changer. When you look at his games in the NRL he seems a lot more effective and energised, over here in super league he gets a pass flat footed and very rarely gets second phase ball in the game plan using him as a decoy instead. Its frustrating for both player and coach that his impact is so few and far between.

We do play 16 men every week regardless if Mose is in the team or not.

I wouldn't disagree with the majority of what you have put but one thing that stats don't measure is the intimidation factor that some players bring to a team and for me Mose brings this by the bucket load. One example that springs to mind was straight after he came on against Wigan and banged McIllorum twice, OK he gave a penalty away (first tackle anyway) but he certainly made his presence felt & picked out their main protagonist to prove his point.

Before he came to Saints last year this was a main gripe from a lot of fans that other teams use to intimidate our pack and we were a bit soft when it came to the tough stuff up the middle.

I agree what your saying and teams do need a physically imposing player but is Mose one? I'm not so sure. Yes ive seen him dominate but ive also seen him get battered and he doesn't like it. The min he gets blood he goes into his shell and goes missing.

He did seem to clam up in the CC semi after that hit from Leulieu (sp) but on the other hand after that nasty clash of heads with Amor the other week he did play on (I think).

I like the fact that in last seasons grand final he put a first big hit on the Wigan pack (OK giving a penalty away again) but after Lance got cleaned out, Wellens went charging in and grabbed hold of Flower but it was Mose who came running in with his right hand cocked and gave out some much needed retribution and although i don't think he connected the intention was still there.

And then went off after 8 mins with no carries under his belt. Catalan was another pack that rattled him and didnt want to know.

He's big, he's soft and he's lazy.

I agree with the first one not the second and to some degree the third. If you remember back to when Paleaaesina played for Wigan (someone of similar size) and near the end of his stint nearly always got pin-pointed by the opposition and more often than not ended up getting beat by a man than mostly led to a try and then getting subbed. I can't remember this ever happening with Mose so maybe the short minutes are down to the coach being cautious and pre-empting this kind of event. You have to agree that most 'impact' props have some issues with lack of fitness but I put this down to their body shape rather than effort put in.

I don't think anyone can say he's not lazy.

I agree that he could be fitter but someone that is lazy doesn't work at losing a couple of stone, which he did after his injury when he first joined us. And someone who I class as lazy would not put their hand up and play over 50 consecutive games. Ok in the majority he only did small minutes but when asked to did the longer minutes for the team.

In it's simplistic form the point is to score more points than the opposition and Mose with his block-busting runs near the line and quick play the balls score a few and contributes to a lot of try's. If he is capable of doing this near the line you need to surround him with other players that are capable of getting you into this position so he can carry out his role. He is never going to do 40 plus tackles a match but a team full of 40+ tackles a match are never going to score many points and thus not win many matches. You need a balance in a team and although in many peoples books Mose maybe marmite I don't think we would have won last season's grand final without him. I think he has gone off the boil since announcing he signed for St George but he is not on his own when it comes to players leaving & packing their bags early but I feel he is a big game player and I hope when it comes to the play offs that Mose is named on the bench for Saints.

We're entering business end of the season. We can't afford to be dropping players just because we don't like them.

A coach's JOB is to get the best out of his resources.

Do you think KC dropped him because he doesn't like him or performance based?

His job is to win games and pick a team that will win. He's dropped JT and Amor this year. Does that mean he doesn't like them?

I've no issues with Mose or Turner. Sure, their performances can fluctuate (like any player). But not to such an extent that I would have dropped either.

It strikes me that Mose has been poorly used. As has been pointed out by others - very often he is deliberately employed as a foil (which is always likely to impact on his number of carries). Also I would have started him far more often - especially against some of the bigger packs in the league.

Turner's defensive issues are in part a product of our defensive pattern. I predicted that Jones (or whomever) would find himself in similar strife and sure enough he was caught in no-man's land against Leeds.

On the other hand Amor's performances throughout the season have been considerably down on the previous year. Why this is so and whether he deserves to be dropped - I'm not sure.

I don't think Kc has used Amor correctly. Kyle is a long mins prop, he likes to do the work and of left on longer will rack up meters and tackles. It's rare this year he will bust a tackle but he needs to be on longer. I don't think two 15 min spells is the way to use him.

I thought the front row with Amor, robes, sav, alex and richards was the best we have played as a middle unit for long long time. All was industrious in the way they went about the job. If we can get Vea back in that pack and the middles play that way every week from now on then I can see us being there or there abouts.

So for me, Id leave mose out and stick with the same lads this week

I don't think our forwards are a problem - in any configuration.

Our problem - for most of this season - has been a misfiring (or non-functioning) half-back partnership. This has been further exacerbated by not having a genuine loose-forward who can function as an additional link.

In game after game we have been almost totally unable to get our backs into the fight. All the workload is being thrown back onto our forwards. These are big lads. They can't afford to be doing any more work than they already are because they tire quicker.

The crazy thing is - it's not as though our backs don't have any room to work in. We've made a truckload of yards all season. The fact that our centres, wings and full-back haven't capitalised on the foundations built by our pack really is a damning indictment of our halves.

Out of the 26 matches Masoe has played this year, in 22 he has made 10 or less carries. The best way to judge a player is look at how he performs against the good teams. In his 4 matches against Wigan and Leeds, he's averaging 11 tackles and 47m per match. He's not been poorly used, he's just been poor.

Which defensive pattern of ours is it that means our centre has to make the wrong decision and shoot in unnecessarily? Jones did so when defending a three on three and created a gap for Keinhorst. He made the wrong decision, this wasn't anything to do with defensive structure. It's just Jones makes the wrong decision a lot less often than Turner does.

The last 2 month or so we have had trouble getting out of our own half. I agree the halves have been awful but the pack has also struggled.

Totally agree and im shocked at some of the excuses that's been made for mose by some fans. If he's wasn't the happy go lucky smiling samoan then people would be calling for his blood.

My favourite is that mose won us the grand final for that one shot in first min! He lasted 8 mins in that grand final and sure he made one carry in that spell.

who said he won us the grand final with that shot in the first minute? If you can remember back to last year, just before he went off after 8 minutes it was Mose who chased back down the left hand side and made the last ditch tackle on what would have been most likely a Wigan try. He also did a similar chase back against Wigan at our place this year again stopping a certain try, for such a big bloke to do this is a phenomenal effort in my book and again it was in the big games when he stepped up to the plate.

After watching him for Samoa against New Zealand in the world cup at Warrington I believed we had signed a gem of a player but if he could perform at that level week in & week out then no way would the NRL have let him come over here so all in all deep down I new he would have his flaws and have been satisfied with his contribution whist over here and enjoyed his stint in a Saints shirt. He has certainly been an improvement on the last big name import we last had although that wasn't hard to achieve.

Since when did ANY forward pack - no matter how good - dominate EVERY game throughout a season?

Packs - like players experience highs and lows. Being off its game for a few weeks is not unusual in a long season. Huddersfield looked like bottom-of-the-league material at the beginning of the year.

But not being able to effectively engage the back division for most of the campaign is suggestive of something far more serious than form.

Jones was in precisely the same situation as Turner because Saints are always defending narrow close to or near the line. We get away with it on Percy's side only because Percy is an unusually good defender who also happens to have arguably the best crash-tackle technique in the competition. But you can't expect everyone - whether it be Turner or Jones - to defend as well as Percy. He's a natural.

Why we cram so many guys into the centre of the field leaving both centres with the devil's own choice should someone clear the ruck and first receiver quickly is a question which only Keiron Cunningham can answer.