Thought this for a while but last night was the icing on the cake. We seem to just stand and wait for the opposition to attack after every play the ball instead of moving up to close them down, even when were camped on our own line. We never attempt to put pressure on or close down moves early. We do this so much that it looks to me like tactics rather than just laziness.

In return we seem to think that other teams should let us run the ball at them but they don't. Whenever we come against a team with good defensive line speed our attack disappears.

I'm probably being over simplistic and I don't claim to be a master RL tactician but when we play leeds or Wigan or wire, their defence works hard coming up quickly and together and we've no answer particularly without Walsh and lomax, yet we don't seem to think that would work for us.

Am I missing something?

Agree, I've been wondering about this for a while now as we just seem so lazy in defence. Looking back at the early games, Warrington (a) and Salford (a) and the aggression in defence was there to see. Sadly, it seems to have lasted about 7 weeks.

Lets face it, we've been shocking since we were battered by Wigan and Leeds over Easter.

Think we have a right lazy bunch of players here.

I think our poor line speed has a lot to do with our total failure to control the speed of the play the ball. This is something we've struggled with in all of our big games this year. I was saying in a text last night to Offside Monkey that even when our opposition get a slow play the ball, the amount of times our markers are not properly set is a real worry. Teams often don't even need a quick play the ball to be able to scoot for 10 easy metres against us.

I,ve mentioned this before in the other thread, I don,t think its tactics in my opinion its laziness through bad attitude. Last night there was no aggression at all, in theory we have one the best packs in superleague, I,ve said many many times this season our conditioning is the worst I,ve ever seen, this might be the cause of the inabilty to put in a 80 min physical and mental performance.

If the past Sean Long and Tommy Martyn was playing last night they would have struggled to create a game with this soft centred pack.

This team of ours is not physically fit enough to play Superleague, luckily the quality of superleague is poor to give us a suprising top position.

Agree with all the comments. That match last night was IMO the starkest illustration yet. Probably because Tony Smith is a top coach who's able to get across to his players the tactics he wants to play (and has players wo will listen & follow his instructions)

Saints, on the other hand, have a coach who seems too laid back, isn't in the same tactician league as Smith, and players who appear to lack both rugby intelligence and the work ethic required to make it at the top.


But the general problem is not one that's only emerged now. We all remember the years of SuperLeague when the RFL/SL were zealous in enforcing quick PTB's and a full 10m for the defensive side. Ian Millward exploited that brilliantly, and our gameplay incorporated this heavily (although obviously had other facets, given the welth of talent we had) even when Anderson came in.

The change in focus at the RFL/SL to allowing all this wrestling nonsense after the tackle's been completed came in toward the end of Anderson's tenure (IIRC), and we did struggle to adapt. I think part of the reason we brought Potter in was to change our gameplay. But he wasn't up to it, had us playing some really negative rugby, and we went backwards.

But all through Potter's time, and under Simmons, Rush/KC and now Brown, our defensive line speed and ability to slow down the opposition whilst delivering quick PTB's ourselves, has shown improvement only in brief sporadic patches.

I think it's unfair of the OP to post a thread topic that no one on the Saints Team understands or has comprehension of.

Can we get a petition up to get a name change from Langtree Park Stadium to Lazy Players Stadium, then we won,t be too dissapointed in what we get served up on match day.

I think it is a lack of fitness not laziness that lends to slow line speed. Saints were off the pace after ten minutes last night.

Line speed works if you're set and ready and are controlling the ruck.
How can you be quick to meet the attacking line if you're not set?
I don't necessarily think it was Saints being lazy more the fact your inability to contol the ruck, Higham, Monaghan and Russell scooting and making way too many easy yards, simple passes finding holes and then just recycling the process.

The only laziness that comes into it are the dummies in the first half, just weak half ar$ed tackling, I can't believe you weren't set for our first try either.

I can. We have been seeing that standard of defence on and off all season. We have a number of half ar$ed tacklers in our team, especially forwards who are generally half ar$ed in attack too. Yet Brown never drops them. The only players he has dropped has been our two wingers.

The defence has been poor all year. In fact it's been terrible for good few seasons now.

The old successful saints team wasn't great in defence but when those big important games came around we defended for our lives and all worked for each other.

I'm not sure getting to the grand final is the right time this year. I fear for a record score on us if we got there with this lots defence.

Some of the defence for the Warrington scores was totally embarrassing and school boy stuff.

I,ve just been reading the book "As Good As IT Gets" to where Anderson has just come to the club and within days of being here put in a defensive structure.
The response and results to attitude and work ethic was immediate, if you remember one particular season we had a couple of games where the opposition where making ZERO METRES on some of there sets.
We still have enough ex and current players in Scully, Cunningham, Wilkin, Gardener, Roby and Wellens who know how this defence plan was implemented, surely these experienced would be better creating a "workshop" with Brown + co to adopt some defence system, if Anderson can do it in days, then why can't we do it in similar timescales.

It really is that simple to win the collision, wrestle, turn them on there backs to control the ruck area.............do we have the players who want to do it is the question.

We haven't had a consistently decent line speed since Mick Potter left (like him or loathe him).