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On GMR phone in on Thursday, Marwan made his thoughts clear on Eamon taking the lead in blocking the marquee player vote.
What incensed him was Eamon's comments in the saints match day programme that referred to him as a publicity seaking peacock! Using one of his usual war time analogies, saying that the marquee player rule is designed to destroy smaller nations.
Marwan says he once considered Mac as a friend but has no respect for anyone who doesn't respect him. He then ripped up the respect charter that Eamon has been promoting/supporting.
If you want to hear it for yourself, it's around 20mins into this podcast:
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p021q954
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On GMR phone in on Thursday, Marwan made his thoughts clear on Eamon taking the lead in blocking the marquee player vote.
What incensed him was Eamon's comments in the saints match day programme that referred to him as a publicity seaking peacock! Using one of his usual war time analogies, saying that the marquee player rule is designed to destroy smaller nations.
Marwan says he once considered Mac as a friend but has no respect for anyone who doesn't respect him. He then ripped up the respect charter that Eamon has been promoting/supporting.
If you want to hear it for yourself, it's around 20mins into this podcast:
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p021q954
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| Mar Cockrash was always going to be bad for the game. I knew from day one with his silly outbursts and going on the dressing room at halftime.
I agree with McManus, we've got teams like wakey, bulls, London etc struggling like mad to stay in business and this fool wants to put more pressure on the clubs to spend big.
Like McManus said, last year clubs voted in favour of scrapping u21s to save £30k a year but now Salford want to spend £300k on one players salary.
I know Cockrash has Salford best interests at heart and rightly so but the big picture for clubs should be the health of the game in general and mar hasn't got that.
Mar wants it like the 80s with one club winning everything and buying every superstar player.
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| Whilst I agree with McManus that at the moment the marquee player idea wouldn't work, it seems the name calling was a bit unnecessary. Why not just say you are against it and explain the reasons without having a pop at a man who wants this to happen.
Never good to air your dirty laundty in public.
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| Koukash has money and no class, Eamon has class in bucket loads. The Koukash press conference this week had 50 chairs of which four were taken. Just think this clown wanted to buy into Saints. Let him develop a youth system at Salford and proper training facilities, then I will take him seriously.
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| Quote ="Loz"Let him develop a youth system at Salford and proper training facilities, then I will take him seriously.'"
He has already given them proper training facilities and he is already investing in their youth system. Their youth system has been neglected for years and so that investment is long term.
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| Quote ="SaintsFan"He has already given them proper training facilities and he is already investing in their youth system. Their youth system has been neglected for years and so that investment is long term.'"
Cas have shown it can be done in short space of time without having a team full of Aussie and kiwi internationals. They ain't trying to sign the likes of Locke, slater, burgess, SBW etc. They put a good coach in Charge and developed a good team ethic.
If Cockrash is in this for the long haul like he says, then why the rush? Why not build year upon year and get their within the laws of the game? Instead he's looking for laws to be broke, rules to be changed for a short term fix.
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| Yeah we should Block every idea he has and drive him out the game. We don't want people with money and Ambition in our Sport!
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| Salford will be better served building a strong club from top to bottom over a number of years.
What Marwen appears to be trying to do is build a house with foundations of sand.
Without the long term foundations it will all come tumbling down in a few years and leave Salford and Marwen with bigger issues than they have now.
By all means they need to strengthen the team but for me it needs to be done in increments over a number of years.
Look at this year, they made loads of signings in the off season and were talking about winning the league. As it is they are looking over their shoulder at the slight possibility of relegation.
It takes time to build an empire, and they need to set realistic goals.
We have seen how Catalan and Widnes have started from humble beginnings and turned themselves into good sides.
Salford need to do the same.
No doubt they will be shouting about winning the league next year, when in reality a more realistic target will be finishing in the top 8. Then the following year looking to get in the top 5 or 6 then after that looking to make a semi final or final.
Something similar is going on with many Saints fans. At the start of the year some Saints fans were thinking we would win the lot. The reality is that as a side we haven't won anything for years, and so need to relearn how to get onto the pedestal. There is an old saying that you need to lose a final before you win one. Saints need to learn first how to get to finals and only then can we dream of winning one or more of them.
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| Quote ="JLM23"Yeah we should Block every idea he has and drive him out the game. We don't want people with money and Ambition in our Sport!'"
Are you not reading what the clubs and sensible fans are proposing?
Most clubs, including saints are in favour of "marquee signing" but just not yet. Super league isn't stable enough to be spending that type of money on one player.
Just cast your mind back 18 month. His was Salford doing financially and on the field? Not very good IMO as I know for a fact before mar come in, the after match good for players had stopped, players wasn't getting paid on time, your chairman was saying he can't keep putting money into the club, you then coach asked could a spare room be msgd into a room where the payers can have pool table etc and relax which was turned down due to lack of cash.
If you look past how your club is now, the is still clubs like that isn't financially stable and can't afford £300k ok a players salary. Look at the attendance the other night at wakey, the was less than 4000 there, the London crowds are less than at blackbrook on Saturday afternoon.
Until all clubs are financially stable, the marquee signing can't be Brought in! We can't bring it in just because mar can afford it.
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| Quote ="JLM23"Yeah we should Block every idea he has and drive him out the game. We don't want people with money and Ambition in our Sport!'"
Hang on, in every discussion before the vote, Salford fans were clamouring that it wasn't even koukash's idea. Now that he lost the vote, were trying to force him out of the game by blocking his ideas?
No one man is bigger than the game. And that includes koukash. Bringing in rules to sate his ego, that endangers the existence of other clubs is the beginning of the end. The majority don't want a marquee signing at this time, and mr koukash needs to get his head around that.
Oh, and koukash insulted McManus first, and in fact insults everyone who wasn't in favour of the way he thinks - can dish it out but not take it obviously. I don't think calling the teams who voted against in the feb vote puppets is being very respectful koukash so why should McManus give you any respect? (Using your own argument)
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| Quote ="The Chair Maker"Salford will be better served building a strong club from top to bottom over a number of years.
What Marwen appears to be trying to do is build a house with foundations of sand.
Without the long term foundations it will all come tumbling down in a few years and leave Salford and Marwen with bigger issues than they have now.
By all means they need to strengthen the team but for me it needs to be done in increments over a number of years.
Look at this year, they made loads of signings in the off season and were talking about winning the league. As it is they are looking over their shoulder at the slight possibility of relegation.
It takes time to build an empire, and they need to set realistic goals.
We have seen how Catalan and Widnes have started from humble beginnings and turned themselves into good sides.
Salford need to do the same.
No doubt they will be shouting about winning the league next year, when in reality a more realistic target will be finishing in the top 8. Then the following year looking to get in the top 5 or 6 then after that looking to make a semi final or final.
Something similar is going on with many Saints fans. At the start of the year some Saints fans were thinking we would win the lot. The reality is that as a side we haven't won anything for years, and so need to relearn how to get onto the pedestal. There is an old saying that you need to lose a final before you win one. Saints need to learn first how to get to finals and only then can we dream of winning one or more of them.'"
Agreed mate.
If he's in it for the long haul like he says, then I don't see why all the rush.
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| Taking away the respective pros and cons of each argument, does a marquee player rule fit within Saints current business model? We are debt free and looking to make a profit for the first time in years, would Eamon or Rushy want to out out and spend £300k-£400k a season on a top line Aussie?
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| Quote ="The Chief"Taking away the respective pros and cons of each argument, does a marquee player rule fit within Saints current business model? We are debt free and looking to make a profit for the first time in years, would Eamon or Rushy want to out out and spend £300k-£400k a season on a top line Aussie?'"
Well, the unexpected increase in sky money this year would probably cover any marquee salary - assuming eamon knew as much as everyone else about the sky negotiations and the 500k is unbudgeted for, a marquee shouldn't affect our ability to break even (as we were hoping for previous to the sky deal) - but I think on principle eamon has better plans for the money...
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| This is great stuff! It makes me laugh every time he talks about the marquee signing rule and refers to it as one of his "ideas". It was first proposed by the RFL in a policy document before Koukash got involved in RL.
When the first vote was taken and the rule was rejected, he referred to Saints as being, and I quote, a "club that is holding back the game in this Country". He then has the cheek to come out and start talking about 'respect'.
If anyone wants to know what EM really thinks of the Doctor, then they should have heard what he had to say about him at one of the fans forums. He ripped into him big style. It was hilarious. He said that most of the time he doesn't understand a word that he is saying. He also said something along the lines of, "I am not going to take any lectures about RL from someone who just 12 to 18 months ago thought that Sonny Bill Williams was a country and western singer".
EM has got this whole thing spot on. Let's get our own house in order in this Country. Make sure that every SL club is financially stable and THEN consider the marquee signing rule.
We have to invest in youth first and make sure that every British player stays in our competition.
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| Quote ="The Chief"Taking away the respective pros and cons of each argument, does a marquee player rule fit within Saints current business model? We are debt free and looking to make a profit for the first time in years, would Eamon or Rushy want to out out and spend £300k-£400k a season on a top line Aussie?'"
I'm not sure we are debt free. McManus stated during his Superleague Superstars interview that Saints don't have any [ibank[/i debt. However, there is that £3 million that the club borrowed from one of its directors to furnish the stadium.
According to Mike Rush in his interview for Forty20 a few months ago (or was it Rugby League World? One of them anyway) the club is looking at breaking even by the end of this year.
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www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/4163
Eamonn hit's back:
Despite comments to the contrary in recent days, I'm delighted to say Super League goes from strength to strength as we prepare to enter into a new and exciting era. It is fantastic news that the game's commercial and marketing operations are transferring to Media City in Greater Manchester. Manchester is an international city, an international sporting city and an international media city. Rugby league is an international sport with a great product which is steeped in tradition and history. It is a significant and welcome step forward that we are now running and accurately presenting ourselves as such. It has always been an issue of mine that our headquarters is located at Red Hall, namely in a farmer's field twenty miles north of Leeds. No slight meant on Leeds but every slight meant on farmers' fields when it comes to a sporting business HQ and their consequent image.
More importantly, our new long term TV deal, combined with the very exciting new league formula for next season, will result in every club being able to spend full salary cap in 2015 without the overspending which blighted our game in recent years and which resulted in an embarrassing slew of club bankruptcies. We are now in a position whereby every game in next year's Super League will be fantastically competitive, and every club could and should be profitable. What a unique and enviable message of strength that would send out for rugby league amidst the otherwise increasingly insane and unstable commercial world of professional sport.
I was therefore happy that this week's Super League AGM saw ten clubs vote to defer consideration of the potentially inflationary "Marquee player proposal" to a date after the new league system has time to prove itself and bed in. More importantly, it is to be reconsidered in conjunction with other critically related matters regarding salary cap and British player production and retention. It was hilarious that Salford claimed that it was voted down by "RFL friendly clubs" when the proposal was created by the RFL in the first instance and re tabled by the RFL subsequently - you certainly don't need enemies with friends like that! It is nevertheless heart-warming that we can still maintain a keen sense of humour even when we discuss the most serious of matters.
What is not humorous however is the normally very sensible and impressive Brian Carney suggesting that the salary cap be disbanded altogether. He says that rugby league clubs did not go insolvent before its adoption. I'm afraid there couldn't be anything further from the truth. In fact, the big three of Saints, Wigan and Leeds were all seriously bust due to overspending on players and had to be bailed out by myself, Dave Whelan and Paul Caddick respectively. Other clubs even had to merge to save themselves. It was because of this that the salary cap was adopted and with the unanimous and continuing approval of clubs. It is the envy of other sports. Super League was saved by it and would be deeply vulnerable without it. Clubs have to be permanently self-sustaining and not dependent on the temporary largesse of chairmen and directors. Our new TV deal enables that as long as salary cap remains, and at its current level and in its current form.
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www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/4163
Eamonn hit's back:
Despite comments to the contrary in recent days, I'm delighted to say Super League goes from strength to strength as we prepare to enter into a new and exciting era. It is fantastic news that the game's commercial and marketing operations are transferring to Media City in Greater Manchester. Manchester is an international city, an international sporting city and an international media city. Rugby league is an international sport with a great product which is steeped in tradition and history. It is a significant and welcome step forward that we are now running and accurately presenting ourselves as such. It has always been an issue of mine that our headquarters is located at Red Hall, namely in a farmer's field twenty miles north of Leeds. No slight meant on Leeds but every slight meant on farmers' fields when it comes to a sporting business HQ and their consequent image.
More importantly, our new long term TV deal, combined with the very exciting new league formula for next season, will result in every club being able to spend full salary cap in 2015 without the overspending which blighted our game in recent years and which resulted in an embarrassing slew of club bankruptcies. We are now in a position whereby every game in next year's Super League will be fantastically competitive, and every club could and should be profitable. What a unique and enviable message of strength that would send out for rugby league amidst the otherwise increasingly insane and unstable commercial world of professional sport.
I was therefore happy that this week's Super League AGM saw ten clubs vote to defer consideration of the potentially inflationary "Marquee player proposal" to a date after the new league system has time to prove itself and bed in. More importantly, it is to be reconsidered in conjunction with other critically related matters regarding salary cap and British player production and retention. It was hilarious that Salford claimed that it was voted down by "RFL friendly clubs" when the proposal was created by the RFL in the first instance and re tabled by the RFL subsequently - you certainly don't need enemies with friends like that! It is nevertheless heart-warming that we can still maintain a keen sense of humour even when we discuss the most serious of matters.
What is not humorous however is the normally very sensible and impressive Brian Carney suggesting that the salary cap be disbanded altogether. He says that rugby league clubs did not go insolvent before its adoption. I'm afraid there couldn't be anything further from the truth. In fact, the big three of Saints, Wigan and Leeds were all seriously bust due to overspending on players and had to be bailed out by myself, Dave Whelan and Paul Caddick respectively. Other clubs even had to merge to save themselves. It was because of this that the salary cap was adopted and with the unanimous and continuing approval of clubs. It is the envy of other sports. Super League was saved by it and would be deeply vulnerable without it. Clubs have to be permanently self-sustaining and not dependent on the temporary largesse of chairmen and directors. Our new TV deal enables that as long as salary cap remains, and at its current level and in its current form.
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| And we are done.
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| Quote ="Rommel"www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/4163
Eamonn hit's back:
Despite comments to the contrary in recent days, I'm delighted to say Super League goes from strength to strength as we prepare to enter into a new and exciting era. It is fantastic news that the game's commercial and marketing operations are transferring to Media City in Greater Manchester. Manchester is an international city, an international sporting city and an international media city. Rugby league is an international sport with a great product which is steeped in tradition and history. It is a significant and welcome step forward that we are now running and accurately presenting ourselves as such. It has always been an issue of mine that our headquarters is located at Red Hall, namely in a farmer's field twenty miles north of Leeds. No slight meant on Leeds but every slight meant on farmers' fields when it comes to a sporting business HQ and their consequent image.
More importantly, our new long term TV deal, combined with the very exciting new league formula for next season, will result in every club being able to spend full salary cap in 2015 without the overspending which blighted our game in recent years and which resulted in an embarrassing slew of club bankruptcies. We are now in a position whereby every game in next year's Super League will be fantastically competitive, and every club could and should be profitable. What a unique and enviable message of strength that would send out for rugby league amidst the otherwise increasingly insane and unstable commercial world of professional sport.
I was therefore happy that this week's Super League AGM saw ten clubs vote to defer consideration of the potentially inflationary "Marquee player proposal" to a date after the new league system has time to prove itself and bed in. More importantly, it is to be reconsidered in conjunction with other critically related matters regarding salary cap and British player production and retention. It was hilarious that Salford claimed that it was voted down by "RFL friendly clubs" when the proposal was created by the RFL in the first instance and re tabled by the RFL subsequently - you certainly don't need enemies with friends like that! It is nevertheless heart-warming that we can still maintain a keen sense of humour even when we discuss the most serious of matters.
What is not humorous however is the normally very sensible and impressive Brian Carney suggesting that the salary cap be disbanded altogether. He says that rugby league clubs did not go insolvent before its adoption. I'm afraid there couldn't be anything further from the truth. In fact, the big three of Saints, Wigan and Leeds were all seriously bust due to overspending on players and had to be bailed out by myself, Dave Whelan and Paul Caddick respectively. Other clubs even had to merge to save themselves. It was because of this that the salary cap was adopted and with the unanimous and continuing approval of clubs. It is the envy of other sports. Super League was saved by it and would be deeply vulnerable without it. Clubs have to be permanently self-sustaining and not dependent on the temporary largesse of chairmen and directors. Our new TV deal enables that as long as salary cap remains, and at its current level and in its current form.'"
I might have been very critical of McManus doing things on the cheap at Saints with retention and signings but I couldn't agree more on everything he says salary cap and marquee related.
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| I totally agree with your Chairman's points re the marquee player proposal, and I'm glad that he deemed it the right course of action to publically state his view as a counter to Koucash's dummy spit.
He seems to have overlooked the fact that Leeds is an international city and indeed major sporting city, other than that he's spot on.
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| Quote ="Les Norton"I totally agree with your Chairman's points re the marquee player proposal, and I'm glad that he deemed it the right course of action to publically state his view as a counter to Koucash's dummy spit.
He seems to have overlooked the fact that Leeds is an international city and indeed major sporting city, other than that he's spot on.'"
I don't think he was having a go at Leeds as such, in fact I think he mentions he isn't. It's more the fact it's in the middle of nowhere.
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| Quote ="Les Norton"He seems to have overlooked the fact that Leeds is an international city and indeed major sporting city, other than that he's spot on.'"
He quite clearly didn't. In fact, he stated quite clearly that he [iwasn't[/i having a dig at Leeds. He was having a dig at the sport's HQ being in a farmer's field.
Jeez but these Yarkshire lot are an over sensitive bunch.
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| Tell me about it.
And Leeds is in the middle of just a bigger farmers field.
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| Quote ="bewareshadows"Tell me about it.
And Leeds is in the middle of just a bigger farmers field.
'"
This is true. AND they all speak funny.
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| I would love to see Koukash respond to that. In fact, I would love to see anyone try to argue against any of that.
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| Quote ="Albion"I would love to see Koukash respond to that. In fact, I would love to see anyone try to argue against any of that.'"
One small point I would argue with is "I'm delighted to say Super League goes from strength to strength" I'm not totally convinced, attendance figures are a concern at many clubs, it's like the tired statement of "The Greatest Game" which many people tend to believe unquestioned.
I wonder how much it is with McManus truthfully getting closer to Big Nigel? There must not be many sports were one man has such control over a sport, and his background is not that rosey! I agree with Koukash, that it is time Super League controlled it's own destiny, with a CEO of it's own, and no representative on the board from The RFL, I tend to feel Soley is only a voice for Wood.
You can have someone who has the money like Koukash, and does not need to go to Hong Kong for money, or perhaps a Chairman like David Hughes at London, who has spent more personal money than any other into Rugby League, but has made some bad choices and been too loyal to some staff?
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