Just watched the first half and a bit of the 2nd half.
Mistakenly found out the score before watching it on the iplayer, also read a few comments on here before watching it.

Let's not forget how good the Leeds backline is.
Best in the league with world class players.
Saints could have scored more tries and Leeds defence was excellent to keep them out.

Ok we want to see more passion especially for the big games we have lost In recent weeks but we have a great team this year.
Not quite firing on all cylinders at the moment but I'm confident saints will come good around gf time.

I would like to see some consistency for players in positions.

How good is jones. Must be one of the first names on the team sheet now.
Lms should be given some time at 13. He has looked good there.
Turner not at his best but doesn't deserve such harsh criticism. Him and makinson have a good partnership.
Did lance have a stinker at widnes or is he injured?
If not he should rightly be a miffed at not getting picked.
Mose is not doing much wrong, he just isn't bursting through defences like we thought he would.
Hopefully there is still more to come from him.

If we fall down the table anymore from 3rd I will start to get worried.

I'm not one for picking this sort of thing out. Leeds where better. Hall is a monster for a winger. Peacock looks like he can go on until he is 40. Ablett is priceless for them.

But you look at where makinson throws the ball before going into touch. Looks like it goes back to me and either way I thought was a penalty to saints.
Leeds score straight away.
Saints got these calls going their way in the last couple of wins and it can sway things quite a lot.
Don't think jones touches the ball where burrow kicks the ball out either.

No doubt a little more steel and mental toughness needed from saints.

Gutted about getting knocked out the challenge cup but after an abysmal few seasons saints are in the up.

COME ON SAINTS

I think you underestimate how big the problems are mate.

Winning our first 8 or 9 games was great but let's be honest, we was lucky in the Wakefield, Cas and hudds game. We haven't played well since the Salford game either.

Why should LMS get another chance? He's been awful for a season and half now.

Turner did ok last season but IMO is one of the softest players I've seen on a rugby pitch.

If a team can't get up for a Good Friday derby with the pies and a challenge cup tie at Leeds then I'm afraid we do have problems.

Your fight about the overreaction but IMO the overreaction was towards the way we started the season and anyone with any sort of rugby brain could see we wasn't a great team and can't tackle.

I'm hoping the soft defence is something that will be sorted in time.

I think the signs from the beginning of the season are good enough to show there's enough there to turn things around including in defence

I worry about players not been given a decent run in one position. Granted players like turner have had and there's no excuses.

You're right about the overreaction from the beginning but i would take the current team over the team we have had for a few years so I'm not too worried yet.
I used to have the mentality of not wining the double was a failure but not been on top for so long has changed my view slightly.

Let's see if Saints can at least stay in the top 3.

You're right about the big games though.
You would have to question the motivation from the coaching staff although why some of these experienced players would need motivating for the big I'm not sure.

What I am happy with is saints have played some entertaining rugby this year.
That's what I love about saints.
Throw in some Daniel Anderson type defence and saints will be a force to reckon with

I don't see any reason why saints can't turn things around in defence.

Even when we was winning early on on the season I commented on our defence being poor and got shot down (mainly Harry Pinner) but our attack was our defence as we didn't give teams the ball. Soon as teams did get the ball IMO we looked dodgy.

I don't feel we can turn the defence around. We can obviously improve it with attitude and application but have players that lack attitude, application and basically can't tackle (especially our edge defence).

Top 4 will be a massive achievement with this team.

We,ve had a couple of games when we have switched on in defence in Warrington and Leeds (league) so its not impossible to fix.
To be honest our" lucky" games we were operating on 50 to 60% completion rates, quite a few games especially Wigan and Widnes less than that.
Wigan, Leeds and Castleford are operating in the 90% region and this is where Saints need to be.

I reckon top 4 will be quite easy with the above improvement, I also reckon we will top the Superleague table by mid may as Wigan, Leeds and Castleford are re now heading into there tough period of games.

It's ok saying this side has more ability than recent teams which it probably does but this side lacks heart, comitmnent and desire like no other saints team I cab remember in a long while.

Has some know, I've been in around saints teams for a long time and grew up and played with a lot of ex saints and current saints players but I've never seen a bunch of big time Charlie like this crop that actually Beleive their own hype.

The training ground is like something our of the wizard of Oz, a bunch of people that lack heart, brains and courage.

Sadly this post is far too accurate. Results and performances matter , even at this stage of the season contrary to what some of the ostriches who think losing 3 games on the bounce and getting booted out of the CC in the process is in any way acceptable.

I'm used to the days when it wasn't accepted but obviously the culture of the club has changed and defeat is now more acceptable.

I've played against a few of the younger players before I switched to Union and they are all decent lads to be fair. Most of the squad are. I don't have any issues with most of them off the field.

Saints need to get back to doing what we did at the start of the season. Defensively we started the season pretty well, but our line speed in particular was as good as it's been for a long time in my opinion. We looked in good shape and our contact was much better than it is now. Far too many players have been bouncing off tackles lately and it needs looking at ultimately.

It's those little things that have been, and will cost us. Our kick chase was shocking at times yesterday. People have been asking questions about Luke Walsh's kicking yesterday, but I don't blame him. Wilkin isn't a 6. When I played at 6, if I'd have done some of the things he did yesterday I'd have expected more than a few words. Nowhere near decisive enough but again, he's a back rower.

We have talent in this team, but until we look at and focus on the basics we'll get nowhere in big games.

On a brighter note," the best stand off at the club" was flipping burgers in B&Q butty van this morning

There you go again Pete, where have you got this from? Either back it up or stop posting it will you? We haven't had a consistently good defence since DA left in my opinion.

I find a lot of posts on here just state the obvious... we weren’t aggressive, we lost too much ball, too many missed tackles blah blah. Everyone is quick to criticise but no one comes with suggestions, just alternate players to sign and different starting lines ups to try.

I don’t see anyone, who 'claim to of played the game' of which standard they never mention, talk about training techniques, phycology, fitness tests, tactics, game management, the importance of rest days, injury management, sports science, training camps and the benifits, team bonding sessions, aggressive contact training like boxing / judo, the benefits of research into other sporting fields and how this can be transferred over to a RL team, player care (the ones 1000s of mile from home) and how the performance may be affected by the move, family support.

I can talk tactics if you want.

As a former stand off that played to a pretty high level, I would have took the steam out the pies by kicking. It was plainly obvious there pack was on top and was smashing ours to pieces like they do.

I'd have kicked them to death, like Leeds did in the play offs few years back. Pin them back, let them have to work and take the steam out of them.

I had a chat with a former st Helen's great who plays 7 and he said the same thing.


Why didn't Walsh do that ?

That would limit posters dramatically. First of all they would have to have knowledge of the Saints current training techniques to say what they would change. They would need to know what tactics Nathan Brown sent the team out with, to know what to alternate.

Some can probably pick up elements from watching the game, but no one would really know the full extent.

If your suggesting we just let people post who have inside information only, just look at the fuss that gets kicked up when someone posts the team line up. If tactics and training methods where publicised we'd really get it in the neck.

It's a forum, it's the same as going down to the pub and discussing the game over a few beers. Surely you are not suggesting we vet people before they post.

What does high level mean?

'Kicking a team to death' is all well and good if you have any sort of field positions to start with. Can't do it from your own 20, which bears back to the route cause which is defence and organising to stop them marching down the field in the 1st place. You can take it back further by saying, yes get a good kick in whilst attacking to pin the opposition down. Everything works in phases, and a knock on straight from kick off isn’t the way to start a good one.

The was times we was on our 40m and could kick deep. Walsh kicking early on in the season was very good and could easily have pinned them down. At times they had Clubb on the wing as well.

We can't match Wigan with fire. They are to strong for us.

it’s just annoying when posts say 'xxx missed to many tackles' which is obvious and correct, they never seem to expand on why those tackles where missed. Did the player pick up an injury the set before, where they out of position, are they in a new role, is the technique wrong, does the last few games show they have confidence issues, are they stood next to a new player who is young and attempting to protect them more..... you get the drift.

Put it this way, I know what Bobbie Goulding, lee briers and Kevin sinfield would have done

That doesn’t really relate to the post however feel free to expand

Simple really, they are old school clever players and a dying breed.

Against Wigan, as I previously posted, we should have kicked and pinned them back. Nothing worse if your a big heavy lump having to keep driving it out your 20m, that's something our pack obviously don't like. It also takes Wigan fire out of them.

Simple but effective.

...

I'd like to know the answer to the top line as well. Might have played against him depending on who he's played for.

Leeds do the basics well first and foremost IMO, especially defensively. Our line speed has been poor though which doesn't help. Earlier on in the season we looked much more aggressive and our line speed was a big difference for us early on. We were suffocating teams IMO. The likes of Amor and Walsmley we're finding quick play the ball the balls and Walsh and Hohaia were kicking early, on the front foot. Not happening at the minute and our long kicking game has suffered. Certainly a factor.

We'll improve though. This is a squad who as we all know, haven't won anything together. That's possibly the difference between us and a few other teams, but it will come. We're competing against teams who have a core set of players who know what it takes to win trophies and know what it takes to pull through and dominate those big moments in big games. That's why changing the squad is never the answer, as people have suggested. The foundations are there though in terms of the squad. Plenty of young talent at Saints who have the ability to grow and improve. How far they go is up to them.

Talking of a kicking game, saw Tommy Martyn the other day. Not many better kickers of a ball than him.

Yes you can. Kick on the 2nd or 3rd tackle whilst the wingers are still up and kick towards touch (but keeping in the field of play), it's a pretty simple tactic when your pack is beat and we should have used it. Force their big men to turn around and run 70m back then have a set of drives and they'll soon tire out.

We did it constantly early on this season down the right but they appeared to have sussed Walsh out in that area though. Haven't seen the game back but at the game, I thought he was taking the ball much more centrally on the last than he was early on this season because of their left edge. Could be way of the mark though because I haven't watched the game back. Doesn't help when you have a Wilkin at 6 either I suppose.

Anyone know if Walsh's 40/20 was on the last?