It's pretty hard to knock the players after that effort last night. A real gruelling game, a fantastic advert for Super League and the intensity of the play offs. Leeds are a superb side, a side of winners and I want them to win it again. They've got everything we're lacking by the bucket load.

Leeds dominated us throughout in terms of field position and Sinfield and particularly Burrow marshalled them round really well. If we had one player of the quality of Sinfield, Burrow or McGuire we'd have won last night. The lads defended superbly, some really heroic stuff. Manu, Jones and Wilkin all tackled themselves to a standstill. I thought Manu was absolutely sensational tonight, setting a ridiculously high standard throughout. LMS too had a dig again.

When we did get chances tonight we were pretty shocking. Although the defense was good tonight, the attack wasn't good enough. We've had a full season under Brown and it still doesn't look like the players actually know what they are supposed to be doing when they get into the opposition half. It seems plays 1 and 2 are just one up tackle wasters to settle in. 3 is a crashball pass telegraphed, faxed and emailed to the defense in advance and plays 4 and 5 are blind panic. I think some of the senior players really need to take some of the blame for it though. Meli's hand in to give a stupid penalty on Leeds' line on a rare sortie down into Leeds 20, Roby's decision to kick on the second when under Leeds' sticks when it wasn't on at all was also stupid. Hohaia seemed to spend the game chastising the likes of Wilkin, Roby and Lomax for what they did on the previous play. Roby in particular was awful in his decision making.

A point I'd given up making recently out of sheer boredom, Paul Wellens. Paul Wellens starting at fullback is one thing. It's a stupid thing and a should-have-ended-4-years-ago thing, but it's nothing compared to the ridiculousness of starting with Paul Wellens on the bench. He didn't seem to get on until the hour mark. Why bring him on at all? Is that Brown protesting at McManus forcing him to be in the 17? Or is there meant to be some kind of point to having the slowest back in the history of the world on the bench?

Last night kind of sums our season up to be honest. Solid in defense, like headless chickens with the ball. It's incredibly naive of us to think Luke Walsh, a player proven to collapse under pressure, will solve all our problems. We NEED another halfback.

Wellens should have been at fullback all season. I'm still to be convinced that Lomax is a fullback.

Wellens should have been released four years ago. The days of him contributing anywhere on the field are long over.

What about those flowing curly locks the sky cameras caught him brushing and the scowling he does?

He contributes plenty.

How to contradict yourself in one post.

How so? I said it was hard, didn't say I wasn't going to

Is this post a take?

Where you watching the same game to the rest of us?

What was your opinion on it then? Did you think having Wello on the bench till the hour mark was a good move? Did we attack well? Did we not defend well? Which bit of it are you referring to when you ask if I was watching another game?

It was a masterstroke. Wellens nearly won the game for saints. He works well as an impact sub in the rob burrow mould.

This guy has been calling for a 7 all season. We sign one from the NRL and he's not even played for us but yet he cracks under pressure. Your post isn't pointing out anything we don't already know. As for Roby not playing well as you claim, he has hardly played all season. If you have ever played sport at any level you will realise a tired body leads to a tired mind. Yes his decisions weren't perfect as he was ring rusty. Sia didn't break a tackle all night as he was not match fit.

You're very good at criticising the team and how they play but, very vague on your solutions to the problems

You say we were ultimately poor and go on to praise how good Sinfield and Burrow were, but they scored the same amount of tries as us and had more territory than us. So where Leeds poor offensively aswell?

Considering we have no half backs and a back rower has had to fill in all season I thought we did pretty well to be honest. It was an intense game (it would've been fitting of a Grand Final it was that good) where defences were strong, it wasn't really the kind of night where the attacks shine.

thought your lads played really well, great game

I thought it was a good game, Leeds had more chances, more territory, but Saints defence held well. In saying that I didnt think either would go on to win the SL this year.

I'm not sure why. He's a decent defender, can take a high ball and is much more dangerous in attack than Wellens. The fact that he gains us an extra 20-30m on pretty much every kick return also takes pressure off the rest of the team.

The swap was a no brainer for me.

Who are these magic fix all halfbacks that are off contract?

Yes, I'd say so. They had the lions share of the possession and territory throughout the game. At half time they'd had 20 more play the balls than us and the graphic Clarke does which does where those play the balls happened were telling. We had little ball outside of our own half and only 2 in the opposition 10m. I think by comparison they'd had 17 in ours. It was a combination of a remarkable defensive performance and a lack of clinical execution from Leeds. They put too much ball down and didn't take anywhere near enough advantage of how on top they were throughout the game. The game was the equivalent of a penalty shootout win for a big side in football playing against a minnow, dominating the game but unable to score.



That's why I put my opening line. Given what we are, it wasn't a bad performance, it was a brave fall onto the sword if you will. It is however completely the club's fault that we went into the season with that squad and that shouldn't be forgotten because of the upturn in form towards the end of the season. A lot of mistakes were made before the season even started and Brown can't come out of it with a completely positive scorecard either. Whilst he has to a degree steadied a ship he unbalanced, he has left the side looking pretty shambolic with the ball in big games. Signing Luke Walsh is a positive move, but it isn't going to solve all our problems in one go. He absolutely MUST have a partner next season and his partner ABSOLUTELY CANNOT have the surname Wheeler, Hohaia or Wellens.

Rangi Chase, Sam Hopkins, Jacob Miller have all moved clubs. All those would have been good enough. The new stand off doesn't have to be a world class player either. They just have to be an established halfback with a bit of pace or an eye for a pass, someone to take the playmaking pressure off Walsh.

I often think this saddo is a pi%s taking wiginer who knows how to use the spell checker.

So you are saying Sam Hopkins is a good enough stand-off to play for Saints and we should have signed him?
You aren't even aware that he is a prop forward, are you.

Rangi Chase - not off contract, after spending 800k on cladding I don't think it's really fair to ask the club to spend more on playing roster, maybe in a couple of years after initial overheads etc and further to that he asked for a massive salary which would cause a massive imbalance in player roster.

Jacob Miller - firstly quota, secondly because he's set the world alight with his attacking at hull? He's taken a lot of slack from the hull fans (to be fair who hasn't) and may well prove over the next 5 years to develop into a decent player, but he's not at the moment, one of the reasons why hulls attack is a major complaint for their fans - and if we want a project, stick Yates in the team or whoever else is in the youth set up - surely developing our own, British players would make more sense?

Sam Hopkins - untried untested at super league level - and you want to throw him straight into the 6 ? We may of been in for him and he chose Wigan and would of been preferable to miller but again is a another project and whilst he may or may not have more "potential" than players already here but, for example, at Wigan he's behind green and smith and will be able to develop in his own time, if we had of signed him as starting 6 you'd of been saying he can't go straight into the Wigan team why can he go straight in ours

And this is all irrespective, as these are all missed out on people - I asked who is the AVAILABLE signings - not who could we of signed at some point in the past (that Lockyer player would of been great

) who would improve on the team?

Fo rthe record, I agree to an extent a 6 would be good, lance for me is much better interchanging with Roby at hooker. But out of everyone available for the position (unless a surprise appears in the World Cup, who is magically not quota) I can't see anyone I would rather have then wheeler (for 20 minutes) and Wilkin - not ideal certainly but better than making a signing for the sake of a signing!

Sam Hopkins isn't a half back.
He wears the 8 shirt at Leigh and has played most of this season at 13.
We're told he's around 6'3" and 17st which fits the bill well for a SL forward.

Also I disagree with the OP. Don't know where the "Brave" comes from, Saints were excellent last night and should have won.
Watkins dropped the ball and the player gave himself up before the decision was made. If he felt he had scored he have been all smiles and high fived all round. He didn't, his face looked miserable and he shook his head as if he knew he'd dropped the thing! Field position for Leeds would have been helped by the fact Saints didn't get a penalty in the game until 50 mins against Leeds five.

Someone should have had a go kicking at goal from the half way line. McRae said Turner would have the distance, true or not I don't know.
Also a complete mess of the drop goal attempt. Chances there which have to be taken in knock out rugby.
Great game and both teams gave their all.
Whoever had won surely Smith would chose for the club call.
Both teams looked exhausted and recovery in 6 days seems a big ask.

Sam Hopkins is a prop or loose forward.

Will you guys not go back in for O'Brien? He wont get many gamescat Wire and I reckon they'd let him go for a reasonable fee.

I thought you played well last night but I never seriously thought you could win the GF. There are too many weaknesses in this current Saints side but that will change next year. Your back will be miles better, your backline has plenty of pace and if Walsh can take control the side looks very well balanced.

They say that about us EVERY season...

He'd still be better than Hohaia. I meant Sneyd from Salford.

Sneyd was part of the Chase deal, so no chance there either.