Did anybody else notice the goons especially the Ginger one doing it all night ? It was a real pain and it messes up the markers , why is it our refs seem so unable to see simple infringements????

Yes, I noticed that. It sounds like nitpicking, but it only takes a little step to either side to put the markers in a 'not square' position and thus create a genuine advantage for the dummy half. Needs to be more carefully policed, that.

Quite a lot of teams do it, the annoying thing is when the marker stands his ground and the ball is played into the markers legs resulting in a penalty to the attacking side.
The refs get sucked into it, they are too busy lining up the 10 metres, next thing they see is an infringement at the play the ball created by the attacking side but is missed.

Both teams last night broke so many rules! Childes is such a bad referee, they are more like girls these days, when you think of Clay & Naughton!

Was going to say the same thing. Players will be told to take a step because it disrupts the markers. The refs will not penalise unless it's obvious.

Farrell usually plays the ball about 20 yards to the side of where he's tackled.

He was rubbish last night. Didn't look like he could break out a paper bag.

Wigan were doing it all night. They made as much ground after the tackle as they did before it. The default setting was to step forward a couple of times when playing the ball, which tempts the marker into pushing them back. But there were a couple of absolutely farcical moments, one in particular where Charnley in the first half shimmied between the two markers and played the ball a good 6 feet away from where he should have done. Whenever the markers were scrambling the Wigan player always moved up between them. They should have been penalised for it several times.

Thank the Lord - I thought it was just me it was doing my nut in. I was shouting about it constantly.

Leeds are the other GREAT exponents of this dark art.

Get it sorted Ref!

The play the ball was a shambles last night overall, add it to the tick list.

we need 2 refs on the field (and neither of them James Childs!)

either that, or the Ref needs to manage the ruck, with the touch judges taking total responsibility for the onside / offside 10m line.

And it is, you won and deserved it, Saints is only a nickname.

Just an observation, old bean.

And a correct one too

This is another of those elements of the game that is being neglected when it comes to enforcement. It sometimes results in benefit for the attacking side, whoever they are. It just needs to be picked up on now and again but maybe the problem is a that of workload for refs during that couple of seconds as mentioned earlier.

Furthermore, the attacking player with the ball pushing the marker in the chest: this should be an instant penalty. Once the tackler has moved away and the players are no longer in contact, should one of them reach out to push or pull the other, that should be an instant penalty. It would take just a few matches to stop the messing around. I'm not a big fan of being selective about which rules to pick up on or making certain infringements fashionable. All elements should be policed.....and I don't mean every occurrence necessarily, but every type just now and again. Notice in Monday night's game (hell, any game) how many times players defending their own line had both feet in the field of play by some considerable distance......

Like most of the rules in our game (and probably other sports), its not policed until something high profile happens. It had been routine for winning teams not to take the ball up with any great agression in the last set of six. Chris Joynt does it in a final and its out and out cheating. I suppose you have to commend coaches and players for noting something to exploit for a period of time, until it becomes widely known and then it clamped down.

watched the video of the game again last night, and this was a major problem all game - with Goulding and Farrell the biggest cuplrits in particular.

At one point Goulding steps 2 feet to his right, Wilkin stands his ground at marker and James Child shouts "he moved to the side" - if you spotted it James, you should penalise him.

I'm pretty sure that I read on the Ask the Ref twitter questions that the touch judges do police the offsides.

It would take 40 minutes. Wasn't there an experiment a few years back with Kirkpatrick reffing a lower league game when he penalised absolutely everything all game? IIRC he gave 40+ penalties first half and under 10 the second.

There you go, all you need to do is blow for a few penalties and coaches will stop asking their players to do this.

Yup, all we need is fans and the media not to carry on about the ref wanting to be the centre of attention if it happens.

Ah, like Stevo's "let the game flow" argument?

Which is entirely dependent on what mood he's in. He'll be commentating on a Friday night peddling that line, then on Saturday he'll be shouting 'he should have been PENalised' every thirty seconds.

He should be PENalised.....of his job.

That comment about coaches not asking their players to infringe reminds me of a discussion I have with my old man a couple of times a season. When a senior player gives away a penalty for lieing on or holding down (used to be Joynt, now often Wilkin), My pa is close to thrombosis, berating our player. I explain that its likely the more experienced players are coached to do this when we are perhaps being a little overrun, to hinder the opposition's momentum and often they'll get away with it. He says "I'm your dad.....go to your room"

It stands true though.....if they were penailsed more often, teams on the front foot wouldn;t be slowed and the game would be fast and exciting.....or perhaps one sided with a very high score!

And i do recall a game some years back being reffed morer stringently and after half time the players were better behaved, but I couldn't quote numbers or 'owt.

I think the problem was that, around 2006 and before, refs were encouraged to give less time to the tacklers, resulting in a quicker play the ball, but it very much favoured the Brian Smith school of coaching - big forwards, quick play, run from dummy half.
Whilst the game was quick, it was perhaps limiting the amount of constructive, attractive rugby, as the ball often didn't get wide of the ruck.

When we came up against the aussies in or around 2007, we looked (more than usual) way adrift in terms of playmaking ability. That's when they decided to slow things down, give more advantage to the defenses in order to make the attacking teams come up with better plays. I think it has worked - the emergence of the full back as an extra pivot is one result.

It has gone a bit far though and I wonder whether, instead of concetrating solely on the time allowed at the play the ball, they could have a look at what I would call cynical grappling.
Genarally too many second efforts when a guys been tackled and on his way up.
Too often I see a tackled player on the floor and one of the tacklers will grab their loose arm and wrap it in an awkward position.
Very often, the player's tackled stood up, the ref shouts held and the defence are then (for some reason?) allowed half a second extra wrestling to pull him to ground.

Also, we very rarely see the sin-bin used for holding down following a break. This should be a must, IMO.